Need reference to text about wearing a Red Ensign, please.

[shmoo]

Can anyone point me to a reference to the authoritative text that says that British registered boats must wear a Red Ensign?

My son wants to fly a skull and cross bones at the ensign position. Don't ask me why: I suppose that is why kids are different from people. He has a respectable enough boat, a mature wooden Nicholson, but is unlikely to be convinced by appeals to custom and practice.

My guess is that it will be a Merchant Navy Act of some vintage but we have not been able to track it down.

 

[bobgoode]

Why not try the RYA booklet on flag etiquette, as a starting point?

 

[Guest]

Merchant Shipping Act 1995

[ QUOTE ]
"2.—(1) The flag which every British ship is entitled to fly is the red ensign (without any defacement or modification) and, subject to subsections (2) and (3) below, no other colours.

(2) Subsection (1) above does not apply to Government ships.

(3) The following are also proper national colours, that is to say—
(a) any colours allowed to be worn in pursuance of a warrant from Her Majesty or from the Secretary of State;
(b) in the case of British ships registered in a relevant British possession, any colours consisting of the red ensign defaced or modified whose adoption for ships registered in that possession is authorised or confirmed by Her Majesty by Order in Council"

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
4.—(1) If any of the following colours, namely—
(a) any distinctive national colours except—
(i) the red ensign,
(ii) the Union flag (commonly known as the Union Jack) with a white border, or
(iii) any colours authorised or confirmed under section 2(3)(b); or
(b) any colours usually worn by Her Majesty's ships or resembling those of Her Majesty, or
(c) the pendant usually carried by Her Majesty's ships or any pendant resembling that pendant,
are hoisted on board any British ship without warrant from Her Majesty or from the Secretary of State, the master of the ship, or the owner of the ship (if on board), and every other person hoisting them shall be guilty of an offence

[/ QUOTE ]

 

[Twister_Ken]

Just tell him he's a prat, not a pirate.

 

[shmoo]

Thanks SimonCr, that's spot on. Do you mind telling me where you got it (if it is available on line)

Twister Ken, yup that's kids. To misquote Mark Twain - arguing with children is like wresting with a pig. You get dirty and the pig enjoys it.

 

[Guest]

Glad it helps, full text of the Act is here:
1995 Act
Penalties for non-compliance are, in theory, draconian - prison sentence, fine and confiscation of the boat! In practise of course that's pretty unlikely...

 

[steveallan]

Unless or courese you are in French waters or someone makes a complaint that is followed through.

Same situation also applies to flying EU flags you just need to choose which pirates you want to support.

 

[Judders]

You could tell him that the Navy have the unenviable right to sink him if he flies a blank colour and he will have no recourse in (UK) law.

That said, if the Navy took that law literally a quarter of all the boats in Cornwall would get sunk!

 

[shmoo]

I have forwarded the link on - thanks. A quick reading of the Act seems to suggest he might be ok. I think it turns on the definition of "colours". Could get counsel's opinion as next years Xmas present...

Nothing to do with me though: I get nervous just flying the cocktail flag from the lower port spreader.

 

[jb2006]

Either PBO or Sailing Today has an article on the penalties for flying the wrong flag in the latest edition

 

[Norman_E]

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

4.—(1) If any of the following colours, namely—
(a) any distinctive national colours except—
(i) the red ensign,
( ii) the Union flag (commonly known as the Union Jack) with a white border, or
(iii) any colours authorised or confirmed under section 2(3)(b); or
(b) any colours usually worn by Her Majesty's ships or resembling those of Her Majesty, or
(c) the pendant usually carried by Her Majesty's ships or any pendant resembling that pendant,
are hoisted on board any British ship without warrant from Her Majesty or from the Secretary of State, the master of the ship, or the owner of the ship (if on board), and every other person hoisting them shall be guilty of an offence

Under what conditions is a the union flag with a white border used? I have never seen one.

 

[IanL]

Under what conditions is a the union flag with a white border used? I have never seen one.

From the jackstaff of a Royal Navy vessel when anchored or alongside. The Union Jack in this instance I suppose.

 

[Lakesailor]

I may be wrong, and please correct me if I am, but those paras define which flags cannot be flown. The list does not include any Jolly Rogers or personal flags, only those already claimed as colours by our or other countries.

Logically that mean that you can fly your Jolly Roger or Forum flag.

 

[Guest]

[ QUOTE ]
I may be wrong, and please correct me if I am, but those paras define which flags cannot be flown. The list does not include any Jolly Rogers or personal flags, only those already claimed as colours by our or other countries.

[/ QUOTE ]
Well the bit in Section 4 says you can't fly any "colours" except the ones listed. To find out what is meant by colours you'd have to look back in old maritime caselaw, but I suspect it's at least going to include any flag indicating allegiance flown from the ensign staff. It might even cover any flag at all flown from the ensign staff. But in view of the historical significance of the Jolly Roger I'm fairly confident that the jolly Rogers will, one way or another, count as "colours". But unfortunately I don't have the facility here to do research back into the caselaw.

That doesn't mean you can't fly a forum flag etc. from the crosstrees etc. Not sure about the strict legal position about flying the pirate flag anywhere though!

 

[st599]

[ QUOTE ]
Under what conditions is a the union flag with a white border used? I have never seen one.

From the jackstaff of a Royal Navy vessel when anchored or alongside. The Union Jack in this instance I suppose.

[/ QUOTE ]

The Union Jack (i.e. at the Jack staff of an RN vessel) does NOT have a white border.

The whited bordered one is the Pilot Flag, either requesting or showing that a vessel is under the command of a pilot. It has been superceded by the International Code Flags.

And in answer to the first question, the red ensign is the UKs flag, and the Royal Navy could stop and seize a vessel carrying the skull and crossbones instead.

 

[Guest]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Under what conditions is a the union flag with a white border used? I have never seen one.

From the jackstaff of a Royal Navy vessel when anchored or alongside. The Union Jack in this instance I suppose.

[/ QUOTE ]

The Union Jack (i.e. at the Jack staff of an RN vessel) does NOT have a white border.

The whited bordered one is the Pilot Flag, either requesting or showing that a vessel is under the command of a pilot. It has been superceded by the International Code Flags.

And in answer to the first question, the red ensign is the UKs flag, and the Royal Navy could stop and seize a vessel carrying the skull and crossbones instead.

[/ QUOTE ]
The Merchant Shipping Acts only require you to fly the appropriate colours when entering or leaving a foreign port, or when challenged by a ship under command of HM officers. So if you got rid of the skull and X bones and hoisted the red ensign instead when challenged you might in theory be OK on that front. However as already mentioned you can't sail under unauthorised colours, so assuming the Jolly Roger is "colours" one is probably stuffed. UNCLOS convention also says you can't switch flag - tho' it's in the context of switching national flags, and the pirate flag isn't a national flag.

On the Union Flag with white border, there's an interesting discussion here , where it's argued that the Pilot Jack is still a legitimate flag for merchant vessels (and presumably yachts) to fly. Anyone fancy testing the theory?

 

[Guest]

They also reckon:-

[ QUOTE ]
There is a different jack for civil vessels. This is an elongated Union Flag with a wide white border around it.
Graham Bartram, 1 June 1999

The Pilot Jack (the white-bordered Union Jack) ceased to be a pilot signal in 1970. It is only used as the civil jack (also named merchant jack, but recreational boats may also use it). It is not very often used.
David Prothero, 31 July 2001, Jose C. Alegria, 2 August 2001

Can this flag be used on inland waterways like the River Thames? It is debatable as to whether the Merchant Shipping Act actually applies to inland waterways, however whether it does or not, the River Thames is a tidal river and as such should not (in my opinion) be so classed. It follows therefore, that Part 1.4(1)(a)(ii) of the Merchant Shipping Act (1995) comes into force and this specifically permits the use of "the Union Flag (commonly called the Union Jack) with a white border" as being one of the "distinctive colours" permitted to merchant vessels. The use of these "distinctive national colours" is nowhere forbidden in law in either inland or coastal waterways.
Christopher Southworth, 11 June 2004


[/ QUOTE ]

 

[Judders]

Who is responsible for enforcing this? A diveboat was buzzing around Mounts Bay on Saturday with a huge Union Flag which it had no right to fly. It got me a little cross. Do I complain to the Harbour Master?

 

[Lakesailor]

[ QUOTE ]

Well the bit in Section 4 says you can't fly any "colours" except the ones listed.

[/ QUOTE ] That's not what I read. If you strip out the list of colours you are left with
"If any of the following colours, are hoisted on board any British ship without warrant from Her Majesty or from the Secretary of State, the master of the ship, or the owner of the ship (if on board), and every other person hoisting them shall be guilty of an offence"
Which means Para 4 is a list of ensigns that you cannot fly.

 

[bbg]

That is exactly the way I read it as well. I think the relevant bit is section 2. If you strip out the exceptions (which do not apply) and the reference to defacement (which also does not apply) it reads:

2.—(1) The flag which every British ship is entitled to fly is the red ensign and no other colours.

So a British ship is entitled to fly the red ensign and is prohibited from flying any other colours. It all comes down to whether the Jolly Roger counts as "colours". I suspect for historical reasons that it does.