Need for self tailers?

[eddystone]

Sitting in cockpit of newly acquired Sadler 32 today and thinking of application of limited upgrade budget, I wondered whether I really need self-tailers after all, even single handed. I really resent spending minimum £1600 plus fitting (less whatever you can get on ebay for used winches) when there is nothing wrong with existing non-ST Lewmar 40s and I'd rather spend on things totally lacking (like electric windlass, my biggest expenditure). Of course the thing I can't do is use both arms, as I don't have a third one to hold the tail so there are probably situations where I can't sheet optimally because the load is two great. In a dinghy I sometimes use my teeth on the mainsheet but I don't think that is appropriate here! Perhaps the answer is three Weetabix or weight training so that I can grind with one arm.

 

[alahol2]

I've been using those rubber 'winchers'(?) on Lewmar 40s for the last 10 years or so. They do actually work if you get the right size sheets, I think mine are 14mm. Not fully 'self tailing' but good enough to hold the tail while you re-adjust your grip or for the last double handed inch.

 

[William_H]

In terms of priorities I think the OP is right. Self Tailing winches woiuld be a reall luxury and that there must be much more pressing needs. At least he should sail the boat for a season before spending real money on ST winches. good luck olewill

 

[johnphilip]

Sitting in cockpit of newly acquired Sadler 32 today and thinking of application of limited upgrade budget, I wondered whether I really need self-tailers after all, even single handed. I really resent spending minimum £1600 plus fitting (less whatever you can get on ebay for used winches) when there is nothing wrong with existing non-ST Lewmar 40s and I'd rather spend on things totally lacking (like electric windlass, my biggest expenditure). Of course the thing I can't do is use both arms, as I don't have a third one to hold the tail so there are probably situations where I can't sheet optimally because the load is two great. In a dinghy I sometimes use my teeth on the mainsheet but I don't think that is appropriate here! Perhaps the answer is three Weetabix or weight training so that I can grind with one arm.

We used to share a Fulmar, so similar sail area to handle. We persuaded our partners against their reluctance to invest in self tailers, admittedly then a boat show deal cost just under £ 900. After a season they admitted they were the best change we could have made.
The same boat had an S-L hand windlass (the sort you put a normal winch handle into the top and wind horizontally like a sheet winch, no longer made, but if you can get one the best option for a boat of your size) I would economise there if I could. Less fitting, no extra cable or battery worries and it really worked well.

 

[Daydream believer]

My anchor line is a rope with chain to the anchor. I do not need an electric winch as i can just run the rope along the deck to the cockpit winch. For the last 10 metres i have a chain hook attached to a line which i swop to another winch for the last bit. However, it can be a palaver when single handed but as i tend to use marinas wherever possible i do not anchor a lot. Generally on the east coast i anchor in shallow water so i do not need a lot of chain & only have a light amount to pull up by hand. Bit different if i had 35 metres of chain though

The point of this is that i would blow the cash on self tailers every time. I have 6 ST winches & would not be without. They get used every trip but the anchor rarely

 

[Tim Good]

I've been using those rubber 'winchers'(?) on Lewmar 40s for the last 10 years or so.

+1 They really are very good and surprising what they can can hold if you don't want to invest in ful ST winches.

 

[eddystone]

Well I will have 40 metres of chain plus rope - I struggled with less that that in my 30's so now in my 60s (just) the windlass is non-negotiable top priority. I think I ill try the rubber winchers before investing in ST's- what brand do they go under?
Thanks for advice

 

[GrahamM376]

I think I ill try the rubber winchers before investing in ST's- what brand do they go under? Thanks for advice

They come in 2 or 3 different sizes and work well, we had them on a previous boat - http://www.force4.co.uk/1542/Barton...rrer=froogle&gclid=CM3gnv2StLoCFbLJtAodOjcAUw

 

[Salty John]

Self tailing winches would be a low priority for me. I've never had difficulty tailing single handed with two speed winches on a cruising boat. The electric windlass would be a top priority for cruising.

 

[doug748]

Good luck with the new boat. A very good machine and grand singlehander

I sail alone, with a similar sized genoa.

Salty John has pipped me. I have no real use for self tailing winches. If I am short tacking it is normally with a severely reduced genoa, for reasons of control, reduced speed and forward vision. If offshore, or racing, twin speed winches seem to do an adequate job anyway.

On the other hand I like all chain rode and an electric anchor winch is looking more and more attractive.

 

[sarabande]

the real value of two-speed ST winches when solo is that you can wind in AND steer or do something else at the same time.

I'd leave a Watch on ebay for the size and make you want (Lewmar are not the only league 1 available ) and be prepared to move very quickly for cash / By It Now.


Self -tailing is a significant contributor to safety as it effectively gives you another crewperson for one important job..

Imagine damaging an arm or hand, and having to winch in and tail with only one. Can't be done without STs.

 

[lw395]

I would want self tailing winches.
I can also see the attraction of an anchor windlass.

How much anchoring are you going to do, vs how much actual sailing?
Could much of the anchoring be of a 'lunch hook' flavour on a Fortress copy and a good length of string?
Or is mainly serious overnight stuff in stiff weather?
Are the ST's a key part of your MOB recovery system?

Different people different priorities.

As we get older, time on the boat in full health becomes finite, it is quite possible that looking back in five or ten years, you will realise that it is worth finding the money to have the things you most want on a boat,
either you get years on enjoyment from it or you get something back when you sell. Ha'pporth of tar and all that.
I'd be happy buying both and driving a rubbish car to make ends meet, or paying off the mortgage a bit later, but that's me.

 

[CAPTAIN FANTASTIC]

The same boat had an S-L hand windlass (the sort you put a normal winch handle into the top and wind horizontally like a sheet winch, no longer made, but if you can get one the best option for a boat of your size) I would economise there if I could. Less fitting, no extra cable or battery worries and it really worked well.

I also have a nice and shiny windlass with the horizontal normal winch handle; very compact, effective, without the cables and switches problems.

 

[KellysEye]

We didn't have self tailing winches and didn't fit them we just used a Tugboat hitch also known as a Tugmans hitch, easy to tie and undo. I'm certainly not against self tailing we just didn't want to spend the money.

 

[CAPTAIN FANTASTIC]

Well I will have 40 metres of chain plus rope - I struggled with less that that in my 30's so now in my 60s (just) the windlass is non-negotiable top priority. I think I ill try the rubber winchers before investing in ST's- what brand do they go under?
Thanks for advice

I hear what others say about the rubber winchers; I have them on my boat for many years now, however, I never use them, I find them fiddly and a bit of a pain.

 

[alahol2]

I hear what others say about the rubber winchers; I have them on my boat for many years now, however, I never use them, I find them fiddly and a bit of a pain.

If they are on the winches and you have the correct sized sheets, they just work, you don't have to fiddle with them. Are you trying to feed the rope into the little gap? You don't need to for winching. Use a turn on a standard cleat to make off.

 

[ditchcrawler]

I wouldn't be without my self tailers.I upgraded my ST30s to ST40s and never regretted it.I got a pair of Harkens for £800 three years ago, there are deals to be had.I also have an electric anchor winch which is one of the best things on my boat.As I get older with a bad back I find I use all these items more and more to extend my sailing life.I have a Winchrite electric winch handle.Some of my friends scoffed at my purchase but some have now bought one.
The new winches are very easy to fit by the way.

 

[Tim Good]

I hear what others say about the rubber winchers; I have them on my boat for many years now, however, I never use them, I find them fiddly and a bit of a pain.

I hear what others say about the rubber winchers; I have them on my boat for many years now, however, I never use them, I find them fiddly and a bit of a pain.

Rarely people use them as intended, with the sheet through the slot at the top. My genoa sheets are far to thick to go in but providing you out enough turns around the winch, the friction up against the bottom of the rubber winches is sufficient to hold in a moderate breeze and certainly sufficient to allow one person to tail and manage a sail when blowing hard.

Not as good as self tailors but certainly good enough for me single handing and for the wife who struggled before.

 

[rob2]

I replaced my 30s with ST30s, but still find it a fiddle to put in a smart tack! Trouble is that by the time you've surged in the bulk of the line and then wound on a couple more turns for grip and fed the tail into the jaws, it's time to tack again and I still hadn't got the genoa drawing. I think you need to use a larger size if fitting STs, no matter what the catalogues advise, or else you lose the advantage you were hoping to gain. Off the wind, though you can easily tweak the sail trim one-handed but it wasn't so much of a problem as I could balance the weather helm against my thigh, leaving both hands to grind and tail. There is also a greater difference between the two ratios on the STs sometimes meaning one is too slow and the other too heavy. Still, nothing in life is perfect.

Rob.

 

[lw395]

We didn't have self tailing winches and didn't fit them we just used a Tugboat hitch also known as a Tugmans hitch, easy to tie and undo. I'm certainly not against self tailing we just didn't want to spend the money.

I think you have missed the point somewhat.
A self tailing winch does not need any tension on the free end of the sheet while winding in.
It is not really about securing the sheet when the sail is trimmed.