Near collision

Then lodge an incident report with QHM via the web site. I can assure you that all reports are actioned and Cmdr Herman (QHM) is very good at responding and investigating all issues. If you feel you have been agrieved, don't harbour (did I mean that as a pun?) it on here, and rely on a range of "opinions". Go and do the job properly. I think the forum would then be interested in the outcome which I'm sure would benefit all.

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Re: A voice of sanity !

i wd say there around lymington and eastern end there are fewer boats, and fewer ferries, plus more flexibility once out of the harbour for everyone - the "width" of the route being a good deal wider since it's a north south route. praps.

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Re: A voice of sanity !

This year the Ferry's seem to use a different transit to the charted one - which is War Memorial and Block of flats. They now seems to use a line closer inshore and angled slightly towards Gilkicker and they invariable leave the transit and join the main channel by a very oblique angle which causes yachts leaving or entering Portsmouth no end of problems

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Re: A voice of sanity !

Agreed that there are generally fewer boats in the Western Solent and, crucially, far fewer large commercial vessels, so it's all much less crowded. Nevertheless, I believe there are regular incidents in Lymington Harbour - though these are, of course, in a fairway and I can certainly see why the ferries need to stick to their course when they're going up the river /forums/images/icons/smile.gif.

However, the real reason why things are better is that those of us who go boating in the Western Solent are far more skilled mariners than those further East. We are also more handsome and make far better lovers, but that's by the by.



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Did that last night thanks, I filled in the report to the QHM. I think most of us are aware that you are a QHM Volunteer and thank you for your input. I just wonder what you would have done?

I did not post this to make a point or be controversial, it is just suggesting a warning to others that these ferries don’t react the way they used to.

I'm sure looking at the response from Tome and a couple of others this post has been read in the right context generally. I am sure that I am not alone in valuing their opinion.

Just as I wasn't making any point or being an “awkward yachtie” with a pole and a piece of Rag on the water. No one was as surprised as me when the ferry over took us within a few yards clearance. I know these poor sods driving these things have a difficult time crossing the Solent, I will always avoid a situation like this if possible and keep out of their way.

I will always avoid a collision situation, this time I could not get away or turn away without making the situation worse.


Ian


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Er - we were being overtaken?? It would have been dangerous to alter course - What would you have done then - down wind ferry behind you?

Er - well, actually I wasn't responding to you was I? I believe my post responded to jonjo who was telling another poster to go away because that poster made a comparison with road courtesy in the general situation of interacting with commercial vessels - a comparason which I thought pretty valid myself.

What would I have done in your situation - well I don't know, wasn't there. But seeing that you ask, I generally look to see what might be coming up behind to bite me, even when coastal - a good practice in yachts which are generally much slower than other vessels, especially the ones that may be doing 35 or more knots (and I do realise the one you mentioned is slower than that, but others on the Solent are not). Do you ever look in your rear view mirror when you drive on the road? Do you always assume on the road that if you have the right of way that the other cars have seen you or will in fact give way? The sea is not much different.

What I can say is that following this thread (and some of the others in recent times) I am not surprised that some of the posters have the problems that they state that they do. If those posters are typical of the Solent then they themselves are a big part of the problem. But there again many such will consider that I don't know the first thing of what I am talking about and discard the view as nonsensical. Typically they will do so without knowing the first thing about me.

Safe sailing.

John

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<<<surely they don't want a small number of week-end skippers making erratic moves in contradiction of collision regulations to "help" them>>>

What is erratic about planning a course that takes you clear of commercial vessels when they are encountered? If it is erratic then perhaps we should all be planning courses that cross commercial vessels in order not to be erratic - errrr maybe, perhaps that is what you do.

I assume that you make your comment about their "elevated perspective" from considerable personal experience?

You sure that you are not just looking for excuses to stand on regardless and stuff to the other guy.

John

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John
Sorry if the replies got muddled.. Yes I looked around as usual, yes I stood on because the ferry was overtaking, not in a fairway, I was not in the way of his normal transit into Portsmouth etc.... and yes this is the first time one has ever done this to me..and no it is not the first time I've been out sailing!

Ian

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Ian - difficult to say what I would have done. Everybody "sees" a situation differently. The completion of the incident report is good and I'd be very interested to know how it pans out.

On another tack, I see you clay shoot. Are you based on Hayling Island? If so where do you shoot?

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The boat is in hayling - until next April but that is another story - won't be worried about ferries next year!!!!!!
Clay Shoots well generally around the local area - Marlpit Lane Emsworth (actually on the back road to Chichester), Densworth Farm, same back road to Chi but further along, Seal Island (Wittering) Live things up on the downs.....

Ian

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Dockyard Port of Portsmouth limits

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Hm! PM me with dates if you have them please. I need to get back into it again. Use to be A class but dropped right off now. I've not shot for over a year, been to busy with boaty things and such like.

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John, I don't know what experience or knowledge you have of the Solent but short of coming out of the Hamble and hugging the coast all the way round to the small boat channel at Portsmouth Harbour you cannot avoid the transit of the IW ferries. At this time of year there are often four running which means about a fifteen minute interval between one passing from either direction.

I sail the waters and I travel on the ferries. I sometimes have difficulty in believing that the ferries have not deliberately changed course to pass even closer to small boats. I say that knowing the channels, tides and swashways.

It seems to be particular to one or two skippers on the Portsmouth/Fishbourne route. There have been a number of instances of their behaviour being criticised in recent years including one where I have been told the skipper was invited to view a recording of the radar in one incident in case they wished to reconsider their version of events. It seemed to quieten down last year but come back this year.

I can confirm their "elevated perspective" from considerable personal experience - they have 360 degree vision because the ferries can be operated and dock in either direction. It is a central bridge on the newer boat and wing bridges on the older boats. There is a passenger deck at a slightly lower level than the bridge, where you can see for yourself.

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Re: A voice of sanity !

All fair poinys in fact I agree with you 100%

I was applauding the bit where the poster said it is easier for small leisure vessels to plot courses to keep out of the way of the less manoevreable commercial ones and be courteous when crossing their usual tracks.

Of course, I was not suggesting anyone should ignore the colregs but I have read this thread with growing alarm.

The only times I have seen a solent ferry cause any such problem is just entering Cowes when it had no options at all. I am glad to say I have never seen any of this reported behaviour from the Portsmouth-Ryde team but I will keep an even sharper eye on them. The reported behaviour especially when there is hardly anyone else around seems incredible.

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Re: A voice of sanity !

<easier for small leisure vessels to plot courses to keep out of the way of the less manoevreable commercial ones >

In actual fact these ferries are a great deal moer manoeverable than the average yacht. Equipped with large thrusters they can go in pretty well any direction they like, forward sideaways and they are so good in reverse that its difficult to tell which end is which!

And you are right Adarcy - it was totally incredible and scary to see this d***ed thing bearing down on me at less than 20 foot range! Particulary in clear open water with nothing else around for at least a couple of miles

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Re: A voice of sanity !

Oldharry

A point in their defence. Thrusters cannot generally be used with any significant way on, in my limited experience.

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I think if you read my post again you will see that I said nothing about avoiding the routes of commercial vessels, that would be foolish. I said that in my view one should endeavour to plot to pass between them without forcing standing on rights. It is clear that many do not understand what that means as they respond along the lines that means confusion - I suggest that those people learn some more about planning and piloting. To plot between commercial vessels is easy enough in all but being faced with bumper to bumper commercial traffic between where one is and where one wants to go I would have thought. Even within very busy commercial harbours such as Hong Kong, let alone more open waters, bumper to bumper only occurs for a few minutes.

My grandma used to travel on ferries and admired the all round perspective from their passenger decks. Your response hardly qualifies as an answer to questioning what experience is held on such vessels. I know of many ferries and other fast passenger vessels, some capable of 30 - 40 knots, where there is essentially no rear visibility at all from the wheelhouse apart from the radar (and a rearwards pointing TV camera normally used for docking) - from the comments about the all round perspective enjoyed on such vessels it would seem that will be a surprise to many. Even if there is some visibility to be gained by walking around the wheelhouse there is often only the helmsman present - presumably he will be steering the vessel. He may not even be able to walk to the wings of the wheelhouse to see what is close beside him.

No, I have not been on the Solent, but probably surprisingly to many it is not the only busy piece of water in the world. It does seem to be unique in having many pleasure boaters complaining about each other and the commercial traffic. It also seems that many on the Solent (of those posting on the forum) have no problems at all. I suspect that the answer lies, in the main, with the attitudes of some pleasure boaters. I also suspect that whatever the facts, like those who have no courtesy on the roads, they will never change and any further comment will be wasted on them. It appears though, that my views are shared by some and I suspect that those are ones who find that they have very few problems themselves when piloting amongst commercial traffic.

Note, I am not saying that Ian's encounter was his fault in saying these things, both pleasure and commercial crews are capable of mistakes or aggression and I was not there; am just responding to the general tenor of the posts.

John

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John

Were you in a bad mood when you posted this, or did you relate it to your own local experiences? The Solent is classed as partially smooth waters and the IOW ferries have hitherto enjoyed a well-deserved reputation for skillful and courteous manuoevering.

I've spent years on the bridge of similiar sized and larger vessels and have come to the recent conclusion that with certain skippers the autopilot has taken control of the bridge.

I think it's a bit rich to criticise experienced Solent sailors who are merely commenting on a change in behaviour which has alarmed at least some of us. Whatever your opinion, at least we are seeking a solution here and your considerable experience would be better directed towards this end.

Tom

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Tom

I think you know me well enough to know that I would not be basing my comments on local experience alone.

Was not in a bad mood, too long in the tooth for that but wish that I was not sometimes, and am the first to admit some commercial crews can be a bit cavalier or lacking. They also make mistakes (even driving their boats onto the rocks under lighthouses in my experience ), but most are very conscientious - I have one client currently running Bridge Resource Management training for the crews of some quite small vessels (I hasten to add that client is not a NZ one as for some posters that seems to degrade the quality of experience, but do concede that it is not a Solent operator /forums/images/icons/smile.gif). However, they are almost always more experienced than the vast majority of pleasure boaters.

Just trying to point out that (in my view and from experience on them - that experience not as crew but engaged by owners for fleet operational reasons) they have difficulties and frustrations that many posters do not seem to understand and whatever a poster's small boat sailing experience, that experience does not give them the understanding of how a bridge works on a commercial vessel. It is clear from their comments that they don't.

Everyone who has said so is correct, I have no experience with the Wightlink vessels and for all I know they may be a pack of rogues, but suspect that is not the case, and have 360 degree 20/20 vision. However, I thought it was clear that I was talking more generally, but it may be that general comment may explain some of the Wightlink experiences and their crews reactions.

Regards

John

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