NAVTEX - is its time up - at last?

franksingleton

franksingleton

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USCG has issued this warning - https://www.regulations.gov/document?D=USCG-2019-0702-0001

The assumption must be that all vessels operating within NAVTEX range ie up to about 200 miles out are able to get GMDSS MSI reliably from other sources. That is probably true for the majority using the internet and marine VHF. But, what about those beyond VHF and internet range? How many carry satellite communications?

When will the U.K. and/or Europe follow suit? NAVTEX, like Radiofax and RTTY, is 1950s technology. As users know, it has many problems. Does anybody know if there is a son of NAVTEX on the way? Should there be? Or are we all going to have to be able to receive internet services wherever we are using satellite telephony?
 
A comment I left on Noonsite about this:

While that might work for ships, which already have a GMDSS satellite terminal fitted anyways, it's very bad news for us yachties.

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Maritime_Distress_and_Safety_System

"As of April 2018 the only provider of GMDSS satellite services is INMARSAT"
"The types of Inmarsat ship earth station terminals recognized by the GMDSS are: Inmarsat C and F77"
"Unfortunately Fleet 77 [F77] has an end of life scheduled for 1st of December 2020. No definite alternatives are currently defined."

That means the only way to receive this information once the MF Navtex is shut down is an Inmarsat C terminal, which is neither small nor cheap compared to current Navtex receivers. Example unit: https://www.bluesat.com/sailor-6110-mini-c-gmdss-system.html (over €4000 with tax).
 
franksingleton said:
Does anybody know if there is a son of NAVTEX on the way? Should there be?
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"Should" is a tricky one with no black and white answer. Personally it's nice to have on a passage of more than a day or 2, not for weather but for all the nav data of buoy lights out, firing range times, survey vessels etc. Would be a shame to see it go.
 
I had Navtext on previous boat, but used rarely. Didn’t bother to fit on current boat and never once missed it.
Cruising U.K. wide, Baltic, Atlantic France etc Internet and occasionally VHF used, and never wanted Navtext.
Trans-Atlantic again devices like InReach and Yellow-brick are pretty much standard these days, and again never wished for Navtext.
Like RDF and Decca its day has passed IMHO
 
Whether individuals do or do not find NAVTEX useful depends on their kind of sailing. The fact remains that losing NAVTEX and, eventually, RTTY and Radiofax is contrary to the stated aims of SOLAS/GMDSS. It will deprive some people of safety information. As GHA notes, this is not just weather. I find it worrying, surprising at least, that there seems to be no thought being given to the needs of the many small vessels that cannot install Inmarsat systems and/or who would find satellite telephony prohibitively expensive.

What can or should be done by sailors? This goes far beyond just the U.K. or Europe. Where is the son of NAVTEX? Where is the robust, free to the end user with affordable equipment? For those beyond VHF and internet cell range there is only satellite telephone access to the internet. Further, does VHF have a future? The other terrestrial GMDSS systems are 1950s technology. VHF is 1960s!
 
Sailing outside coastal VHF range or even anchoring(!!) in dead zones leaves the yachtie practically without forecast. Satellite is a serious investment, besides, what about redundancy if there is a hiccup with the satellite constellation?? (political conflict, stronger than average solar flare, whatever).

Being a solo sailor, I also find it very useful to receive a written forecast I can read whenever convenient even if sailing in the VHF-covered area.
 
You can in theory at least get data over amateur band HF.
Not sure how Navtex range compares to satellite broadcast coverage for e.g. Europe?

The price of satellite comms will probably come down, as more users = more people to share the cost fof the satellite?
 
franksingleton said:
The fact remains that losing NAVTEX and, eventually, RTTY and Radiofax is contrary to the stated aims of SOLAS/GMDSS.
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Losing navtex wouldn't really be that big a deal, losing weatherfax would be a disaster many of those heading across and ocean , and without over egging it too much potentially life threatening. Think that's maybe on the cards? If so then shouting loud now might be a wise thing to do.

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I would miss it but it is not essential for the type of sailing I am doing, coastal. I do like the fact that it receives and records data so I can look back. Looking at satellite technology, it is not that expensive now and could be the way to go.
 
I find Navtex useful, as others have said it just sits there collecting data which I can read when ready. I dont need any other connectivity so for a minimal investment, £300 or so, I get a reliable source of weather and navigation data. Granted it supplements what I can get elsewhere via the interweb, my use of VHF is nearly all for voice, but its there as a backstop and it gets read regularly. I dont know what the investment is for Yellow Brick or similar, how does that compare with a NAVTEX receiver ?

Given NAVTEX is an architected part of GMDSS shouldnt a similarly architected service that relied only on an ability to receive have been specified before the old service is disabled ?
 
I would miss Navtex. I installed it some years ago, when the CG were playing silly buggers, and refusing to issue Safety Information.
I sail on the West Coast and Hebrides. Some of the time I have Internet, some of the time I have the Inshore Forecast via VHF from the CG, some of the time I get Navtex. Usually, but not always, I can get at least one of the three. Obviously the most useful is the Internet, the CG don't do the forecast if they're busy, and Navtex is dodgy if close under high land, but has the great advantage that it records, and can be read later. So yes, I would definitely miss it.
 
Whether we like NAVTEX or not, whether we use RTTY or Radiofax or not, is to some extent, irrelevant. The technology is 1950s. Back in 2007, USCG put out a similar message about HF/SSB citing maintenance/replacement problems of their transmitters. The recent NAVTEX notice makes the same points. Reading posts above, I suspect that some contributors have not read all of the USCG notice. Two paras say -

The U.S. Coast Guard is proposing to cease operating MF NAVTEX and, instead making this information available via IMO recognized satellite services in waters under U.S. responsibility. The current MF NAVTEX equipment is in dire need of replacement. The equipment is antiquated and essential replacement parts are difficult to find and expensive, placing overall operation of MF NATEX at risk. Any approved GMDSS satellite terminal will be able to receive this information. We would like comments on this proposal to make the NAVTEX information available over satellite.

We believe the transition from terrestrial broadcast to satellite will provide for more reliable delivery of NAVTEX information and allow better, more cost-effective products in the future. We also believe this change will have a low impact on the maritime public as satellite receivers have become more prevalent onboard vessels. However, we would like your comments on how you would be affected if we did provide the NAVTEX information via satellite, particularly if you use MF NAVTEX and do not currently have a GMDSS satellite terminal onboard your vessel. We would also like your comments on what types of Maritime Safety Information products you would like to see added in the future if we did provide the NAVTEX information via satellite.
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Does anyone know about the satellite system mentioned? Does anyone know about equipment costs?

Where the USCG leads, others will surely follow. NAVTEX, like all terrestrial radio systems, has transmission/reception problems. Their proposed satellite system may or may not be the answer.
 
Yngmar said:
See post #2: Inmarsat C terminal, around €4k give or take. Requires a fair bit of space too. Not likely to be fitted by yacht owners. I'll miss Navtex too, in case that wasn't clear before :)
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Unless they launch a new constellation broadcasting global weather, free, and could be received on any smartphones like GPS. Only problem is that I haven't heard of such a system in the works...
 
franksingleton said:
Back in 2007, USCG put out a similar message about HF/SSB citing maintenance/replacement problems of their transmitters. The recent NAVTEX notice makes the same points.
.
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Hello Frank,
that request for comments generated a lot of answers (though at that time it was held in the NWS web site, rather than this regulations.gov), they eventually decided to keep it; IIRC the wording was exactly the same: old equipment, old technology, problems with spares, etc etc.

This is what had been retained from the survey:
The responding public collectively perceives that the USCG HF broadcasts are essential to
their safety. There is no viable alternative to the USCG HF broadcasts because present
alternatives are perceived by the public to be out of financial reach. Also, marine weather
forecasts available through these alternative sources may not guarantee the same level of
accuracy, timeliness, and/or sufficiency as provided by the USCG HF broadcasts.


Full report here
https://www.navcen.uscg.gov/pdf/Deliverable 7_Final Report.pdf


regards, r.
 
dunedin said:
Lots of people going transatlantic using devices like Garmin InReach - circa £300 and very compact. Satellite technology is advancing.
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Those are satellite trackers/messengers with a unicast service only. They are not part of GMDSS and receive none of the information Navtex broadcasts. In addition to the purchase price, they cost a subscription fee per month and/or additional fees per message. I guess you could bodge up some service that forwards Navtex messages (but where from once Navtex ceases?) to individual messengers, but it would have to rely on several third party services (the message forwarder and the satellite providers). Not a suitable replacement at all.

Which is why the USCG correctly pointed out that the only currently existing replacement is a very expensive GMDSS satellite terminal that isn't really appropriate for yachts (they somehow didn't mention this obvious conclusion though). A better solution must be developed before Navtex can be retired. It should certainly be possible to do this, piggybacking on existing satellite networks, but it will take administrative and development work, and new receivers (technically mere firmware updates on existing ones might work, although manufacturers will more than likely not waste the opportunity to profit from selling a new generation of devices instead).
 
I find it quite useful even pottering around the edges of Europe.

I think the BBC are floating a similar illogical wheeze with Long Wave voice radio, viz

1) It's really very old primitive technology

2) It would be very difficult, if not impossible, to replace when it busts
 
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