Navionics Charts Self Destruct?

NOHOH

NOHOH

Well-Known Member
Joined
27 Aug 2003
Messages
516
Location
uk
Visit site
Navionics Charts on compact flash cards come with dire warnings not to put the cards into readers and connect them to a pc. Has anyone tried it....and what happened?...Were they rendered useless as Navionics suggest that they would be?.....Just curious
 
I'd guess not but daren't try it myself!

I'd like to load mine on my laptop to see what, if anything, I can do with them with Open CPN & Sea Clear2 (both free), which I have loaded on the laptop. Open CPN I have working with CM93 chart data but I can't "see" any land data on them (names of countries, towns, etc.). I have no idea if this is normal or if I have corrupt CM93 data or what...

David
 
NOHOH said:
Navionics Charts on compact flash cards come with dire warnings not to put the cards into readers and connect them to a pc. Has anyone tried it....and what happened?...Were they rendered useless as Navionics suggest that they would be?.....Just curious
Click to expand...

Only last week I was reading a posting on this very subject. As I use Navionics it was the reason which drew me to the post.
Someone did exactly as you say & the outcome was again as you suggest. They became corrupt. At least that is what the article said and the poster was not impressed, but I guess its there way of protecting copyright.
 
The cards can corrupt even while in the gps as mine did.It was working fine untill i noticed that while en route half of the chart was blanc.When i tried to forward it to the blanc area the whole screen went blanc.The point is that you're buying something or the right to use it and then because of limited life of storage means you get the wrong end of the stick.Shouldn't we at least have the right to bring it back to the dealer and they replace the chart at the cost of the storage means? Why pay again for the same right of use?
 
I use mine from my C80 in my PC - however I purchased (for some silly price!) a Navionics Card Reader after they assured me a standard reader would destroy the card. Worth it though for planning etc.

Steve
 
NOHOH said:
Navionics Charts on compact flash cards come with dire warnings not to put the cards into readers and connect them to a pc. Has anyone tried it....and what happened?...Were they rendered useless as Navionics suggest that they would be?.....Just curious
Click to expand...

In order to prevent fraud, Navionics and Raymarine have developed a modified firmware in card readers to support and not allow (unauthorized) copies of the charts.

As long a syou insert a card in a std reader, you'll able to "see" the root directory and the mane of the file(s).
If You go any further....well, they told You, didn't they?

Only way to go is buying a Navionics card reader (hardwarewise a specular copy of a multistandard card reader BUT with a different firmware): in the price it is included a CD with a demo versiono of Raymarine's RAYNAV navigation software.
 
Dont even bother trying it. Navionics encrypt their data. I suspect that they have also screwed with the hardware wiring and/or the format of their proprietary reader so that it would present a challenge to people trying to read their charts.

Sneaky.

You can use a standard CF card in a Raymarine device for transferring waypoints and application upgrades so there must be compatibility at the hardware layer.

The trouble with pugging in to windows based machines is the hardware abstaction layer of the OS that attempts to go and do things to media automagically without the users intervention. If I was trying to do this ( not that I ever would you understand ) I'd start investigating by copying a card with an embedded device that didn't go anywhere near any Windows or DOS functionality.

Using a CF signal analyser might be a good step too.

:) :)
 
Seen the Navionics card reader & CD on eBay...

gianenrico said:
In order to prevent fraud, Navionics and Raymarine have developed a modified firmware in card readers to support and not allow (unauthorized) copies of the charts.

As long a syou insert a card in a std reader, you'll able to "see" the root directory and the mane of the file(s).
If You go any further....well, they told You, didn't they?

Only way to go is buying a Navionics card reader (hardwarewise a specular copy of a multistandard card reader BUT with a different firmware): in the price it is included a CD with a demo versiono of Raymarine's RAYNAV navigation software.
Click to expand...

Okay I'm now very pleased that I didn't put my Navionics card into the reader on my laptop & whilst I understand why I'm not so pleased that I can't use the data I (well the previous owner) purchased with other packages (OpenCPN/SeaClearII).

I just saw a Navionics card reader (manufactured by Fugawi Marine???) on its own on eBay for about £50 & the card reader with Navionics NavPlanner Route Planner CD for £99. I wonder if that's a demo version that expires or has limited functionality? Have asked those questions of the eBay seller & waiting for reply. Does anyone know if the data on the Navionics cards is compatible with OpenCPN or SeaClearII. Is the data on the Navionics cards CM93 data, CF data? I'm new to all this & trying to get my head round it all & also leave as many options as possible for navigation to try out when I get going next Spring.

I also would like to get the Navionics 23XG Med & Black Sea Chart CF Card, best price for that I've seen is also on eBay @ £169, anyone know of any cheaper?

Cheers,
David.
 
reading such learned posts above - I shall not say that I have read Navionics cards in standard readers. I shall be called a liar ? CF cards I have no idea about as I use SD / MMC ...... But there is no way you can use the info on the cards as it is protected by serious encryption.

To original poster - Forget trying to use navionics in any plotting other than plotters that state clearly Navionics ... Seaclear, openCPN etc. will never read or use them.

Yes it is necessary to use the proprietary Navionics Reader to be able to use the cards with Navionics compatible software.
 
PLEIAS said:
The cards can corrupt even while in the gps as mine did.It was working fine untill i noticed that while en route half of the chart was blanc.When i tried to forward it to the blanc area the whole screen went blanc.The point is that you're buying something or the right to use it and then because of limited life of storage means you get the wrong end of the stick.Shouldn't we at least have the right to bring it back to the dealer and they replace the chart at the cost of the storage means? Why pay again for the same right of use?
Click to expand...

Despite the warnings, following current legislation the customer has a right to have the item fixed or replaced under warranty.
 
the copy protection is between the burned in serial number of the CF card and the navionics charts software... (my guess and nice winter project to find out)

the navionics reader has hardware encryption to encript the charts.

back to topic;
i have inserted those navionics CF cards in normal card readers without any problems. you just see the files. the only thing is you can't do much with them as that cheap ebay card reader is missing the encryption the original navionics reader has.

i also have that £45 plus navionics card reader...
 
Last edited:
Somebody once did tell me that there is a programme around called Goldview2.( something) that the trade use...along with a card reader/writer called Dazzle 6 in 1 to distribute these charts...copying them onto freshly formatted compact flash cards to order...and I just did wonder if anybody else had heard of these.....Interesting replies you have given me, guys.....much food for thought...and I thank you all........but maybe this thread is not yet at the end of its run quite yet.
 
NOHOH said:
Somebody once did tell me that there is a programme around called Goldview2.( something) that the trade use...along with a card reader/writer called Dazzle 6 in 1 to distribute these charts...copying them onto freshly formatted compact flash cards to order...and I just did wonder if anybody else had heard of these.....Interesting replies you have given me, guys.....much food for thought...and I thank you all........but maybe this thread is not yet at the end of its run quite yet.
Click to expand...

Doubt it very nuch ....

I cannot say too much about this as I don;t want to upset the bean counters out there ..... but :

The factory ID of the card is embedded into the encryption ... second there is a file on the card that carries encryption that shows zero bits ... but in fact is a couple of hundred bits in size ... these needed to get proprietary reader to read ... The files must be carried on the same card for rest of their life !
It is possible to copy extra chart files onto an already encrypted old original card .... it works sometimes .... AFTER a small file has a couple of lines altered in the code.

Navionics is different from various other chart cards ie Nauticpath ... where you can in fact cut files from the card ... to a PC ... and then put back to the original same card and it will still work. BUT you must never alter, format or play with the card in anyway ... Navionics is one of the few encryptions that has never been fully cracked. Regardless of what you may hear.
 
NOHOH said:
Somebody once did tell me that there is a programme around called Goldview2.( something) that the trade use...along with a card reader/writer called Dazzle 6 in 1 to distribute these charts...copying them onto freshly formatted compact flash cards to order...and I just did wonder if anybody else had heard of these.....Interesting replies you have given me, guys.....much food for thought...and I thank you all........but maybe this thread is not yet at the end of its run quite yet.
Click to expand...


Dealers can no longer programme charts, they are ordered pre-programmed directly from navionics now.
 
There is indeed, at least, 3 layers in the copy protection of the Navionics data including clever random number generation, checksums and encryptions. If I could figure out how to post an image I'd show a PC screen dump from the Navionics Demo Card DEM44T32 - ATHENS and the card (an MMC) still works in my Lowrance Ifinder, and no.. I haven't figured out encryption.
 
Setting aside the encryption issues which these learned gentlemen have obviously either had a good look at ..or have been well informed of by others....and incidently, we, as end users pay for...(Navionics will like as not have gone out and bought a very expensive tailor made encryption process from some specialist company). ....there is raised one slightly concerning issue.
I fondly believed that when I bought a chart cartridge from a dealer in the UK...that dealer was in possession of some kind of version of the chart database which....rather in the manner of antivirus programmes on my pc..was being regularly updated directly from Navionics with all the chart changes ..and that he then copied an absolutely current version of the chart onto a compact flash card and sold it to me.
If what WALLY above says is true.(and why should we think it not to be true) ..and the dealers have been taken out of the loop...presumably for reasons of "anti-piracy paranoia"..and the dealers get all their charts directly from Navionics....with all the associated time delays.....How do I know that the particular compact flash card I buy has not been lying on a dealers shelf for months if not years?. They are after all never supplied with "corrections up to date till" notices.

They do of course absolve themselves from inaccuracies by putting the disclaimer which pops up whenever the chartplotter is powered up.....but it all poses the question.."Are we really getting (at some not inconsiderable price...the thick end of 200 quid) exactly what we think we are paying for. ...and shouldn`t we as users be expecting some kind of date information attached to the charts?...er.....or have I just missed it?
 
[QUOTE
If what WALLY above says is true.(and why should we think it not to be true) ..and the dealers have been taken out of the loop...presumably for reasons of "anti-piracy paranoia"..and the dealers get all their charts directly from Navionics....with all the associated time delays.....How do I know that the particular compact flash card I buy has not been lying on a dealers shelf for months if not years?. They are after all never supplied with "corrections up to date till" notices.
...and shouldn`t we as users be expecting some kind of date information attached to the charts?...er.....or have I just missed it?[/QUOTE]

This can happen, last Jan, I purchased a bundled plotter and charts. I was suspicious of the chart date since it came with an expired update offer, also an NM I knew about wasn't implemented. There is however, a date code on the card, an e-mail to Navionics confirmed that my card had been superceded. The supplier, MES, replaced it without hesitation.
Not ideal, but you can check.
 
24G MMC card - Date Sep2004. Actually contains three chart files:-
5G392XL embedded dates 8/11/2003 and 9/9/2004
5G39xXL embedded dates 28/6/2003 and 31/5/2004
5G394XL embedded dates 8/11/2003 and 27/5/2004
and the card was created 10/3/2005.

The 5G392 chart is the English Channel and if my reading of the source chart information is correct there are some scarily old dates... although LAND'S END TO FALMOUTH seems to be dated 20040101. Don't have that chart so can't say if this is the edition date or NM date.

More and more I'm thinking that real charts scanned is the way to go with the likes of SeaClear or Belfield. At least you know where you stand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top