Navionics Boating app AIS limited range issue

bnlakeside said:
Hello gkaniak and RichardS

Thanks for these posts. I am still experiencing this problem and cannot work out why. It is making my AIS un-useable, and as I do cross channel sailing, its a problem.
I see that Navionics not lists Quarkelec as a compatible receiver.

I see that one of the screenshots (from gkaniak) was from openCPN on what look like their base map. Is that correct?
I'd like to try to see if I can get AIS targets on openCPN without having to buy one of their (quite expensive) charts.
Also interested to see a screenshot of the Quarkelec unit working with Navionics.
Thanks for the feedback guys.

Barry
Click to expand...
I'm certain that you can use OpenCPN as an AIS display without having a chart installed. The chart in my post #38 was a free download but it's not necessary.

Richard
 
Hello RIchard
Thanks. I will download openCPN and try that.
At the moment the kit is with a friend who is a RF development engineer with a lifetime experience this field. He is mounting everything on a testing board and constructing a bespoke antenna tuned to the AIS frequency.
We will test this (again) with Navionics on iOS AND and Android tablet, as well as openCPN.
Not sure what else I can do! The Quark unit has even been returned and had a firmware update from Quark who tested it and passed it.
A mystery. Will report results on the forum for your interest.
Thanks again for the help.
 
I'll add my voice to the "not a (client) software issue" statement.
If you can see one target your setup is "compatible" with Navionics. That's the thing about "digital": it works or it doesn't. Because "NMEA-0183-over-wifi" isn't a real "standard", incompatibilities are possible (e.g. transmitter terminates data lines with null bytes, receiver expects the NMEA \r\n sequence) but rare and if your transmitter was incompatible, you wouldn't see any data. When Navionics first introduced their sonar maps thing there was no option to set the protocol/source address/source port for data: Navionics just hard coded the port/address of all "compatible partner" products and tried one after the other. Thankfully AIS data source is now configurable so that aspect of "compatibility" is history. If this was a dodgy wifi problem, it wouldn't discrominate
Many of us can confirm the lack of any small-distance limit on Navionics target display
The "fixed IP address on your phone" thing mentioned previously is a red herring (with apologies to that poster)
People have confirmed the unit you're using works for them with a decent range and yours has been tested by the manufacturer
You've tried several antennae which would kind of imply they're easy to get to which further implies they're not very high up. Having said that, the height of other ships' transmitters should get you better range than 1.5nm if you're out in the open in Bournemouth bay.
What you're left with is possibly the power supply to the receiver but I'd be tempted to suspect the transmission path between antenna and receiver, ie cable, interference where things are placed, splitter and most especially connectors.

If you took out the quark thingy to send it back it's presumably easily removable. Can you get your RF engineer mate to lend you a known-good bit of coax with connectors on, pull the quark out into the open from wherever it's installed (extending out power as necessary) and connect it directly (no splitter) to an antenna with the known-good coax? Even if the antenna is only 2m above sea level you should be able to see larger vessels and yachts with masthead transmitters 6nm away.
 
Hello Laika
Thanks for this very extensive analysis.
The AIS receiver, splitter and USB powersource has been removed to be mounted on a board for testing. A purpose built antenna (tuned to the AIS frequency range) has been constructed and a separate 12V battery will power the test setup. Antenna will be on a pole lashed to th pushpit - about 3.5m above sea level. All cables and connectors will be A1. Will test with and without splitter. Have Navionics on iOS and Android and will try openCPN. If all this fails to detect the problem I think I'll start believing ion the supernatural!
I'll post a result when we get round to testing.
 
These devices are 5 volts and so how are you supplying this voltage? The manual suggests up to 35 miles range but does say that performance is degraded by a poor power supply. (Noisy). Some of these AIS units allow you to configure such things as range but you can only check this by running your Quark CD in a pc using Hyperterminal to talk to the AIS . The manual explains how. I suspect the option to adjust range might not be available and that noise in the power line is the problem. If you have any Geek electronic shops around try and get ferrite sleeves to clip on the power line at the AIS end otherwise it's Amazon or Ebay.
 
Hi Bilgediver
Power supply is via battery 12V into a Quarkelec 5V dedicated USB power supply bought with the receiver, so I'm assuming its not the problem.
But thanks for the suggestion of adding a ferrite. Easily done.
 
duncan99210 said:
If you’re doing the testing in a marina, be aware that you may not be getting an accurate picture of AIS reception as there’s a lot that could interfere with it. When I fitted my AIS I got little or no target beyond a couple of miles whilst on the hard: I now routinely get 12-15 miles at sea from a pushpit mounted antenna. I attributed this to the forest of masts between me and the sea blocking the relatively weak AIS signals: bear in mind that the transmission is only 12.5 watts for class A and 2 watts for Class B.
Click to expand...

Are you sure it is only 2 watts? I switched on a similar unit (SR 161) from another maker at home to check it out and connected it to some software I found on the web complete with a basic map and I was seeing the whole river Forth from Grangemouth out into the north sea from South Edinburgh.Longest distance about 30 miles. Much to my surprise I could even see the trip boats at South Queensferry which is in the shadow of a steep slope . This receiver has various settings which could be adjusted using a terminal program and the default setting for range was 3 miles. I reset it to 45. However the OP's Quark manual makes no reference to these settings.
 
I tried the Quark A026 with my new ocpn setup this year. GPS is fine, ais not so much.

Tried two units no change, spoken with them, no change. It was worse than the NASA single ch unit it replaced. Bought & installed a DigYacht unit & now have three times the targets. With the Quark box apart from an occasional 25nm target it seemed to stop at 8nm whereas both other units are fine, targets across the whole range.

It's a shame as I liked the single box approach in this case.

All units using the same aerial & installed in the same location.
 
dje67 said:
My Q026 feeds out to Navionics via wifi and direct wire to my Standard Horizon CP180 plotter. Both displays are showing the same targets, so I don;t believe this is a Navionics software issue.

I temporarily connected by Q026 to my masthead VHF antenna and a few more targets appeared from further away (4 miles).

I've been reading a few posts on other sites and many people quote using a cheap 'n chearful antenna on the pushpit and see targets from 10 miles away (sometime several times that distance) - I can barely see anythng outside the marina... I get nowhere near that distance with my setup. I checked my Glomex wiring today and all seemed OK. I replaced the coax yesterday - no change/difference. I also changed the power supply - no change/difference.

So, I'm pretty confident that the combination of Glomex antenna and Quark A026 is not a reliable setup. I suppose I could get a spliiter for the masthead antenna but I'm getting a bit pee'd of spending money trying to get the hardware I've got working.

I'll try to use the masthead antenna into the Quark sometime this week and see what distances I'm getting

I'd be interested to know what sort of range other people get with a Quark and what antenna thay use.
Click to expand...

Just to close-out on my setup, which was not working well. I eventually got my setup working well and I think that the problem was, after all, the solderless connection between the cable and the antenna. The lenth of the innter core, the insulation, the braid and the outer insulation are quite critical. I reckon that I had a short between the screen and the centre core at the antenna entry. I've now got that sorted and am seeing targets around 12 miles away regularly. I might get further, but in my cruising area it is hard to see further than 5-6 miles without land getting in the way.

Since I got the antenna working I've been quite pleased with the setup. My GPS antenna is below deck and works well. The VHF antenna is on the pushpit and now works well. Navionics seems quite stable as well, although if the iPad goes to sleep it doesn't always automatically reconnect to the GPS when it wakes-up.
 
bnlakeside said:
I have fitted a wireless AIS receiver (QUARK-ELEC) which connects to my iPad running Navionics Boating app . Glomex VHF splitter. All working fine.
AIS targets display, but only within a range of 1.5nm! Beyond this they simply disappear.
Antenna tested and system checked with reference antenna. Also tested against another iPad and iPhone. No change.
NAVIONICS helpdesk states that there is no range limit in the Boating app, BUT their website states:
"AIS integration - Connect the app to a compatible Wi-Fi AIS receiver to see nearby targets overlaid on the map"
Note the word "nearby".
Anyone else having this problem?
Click to expand...


I posted extensively on this issue last year and it has taken me this long to sort it out.
The moral of the story is that you get what you pay for.
I returned the Quark AIS wireless and a few months later bought another believing that I had first received a dud unit.
Same setup. Exactly the same problem! No targets seen beyonf 2nm range. Returned the unit within 14 days and got a refund.
Bought a Digital Yachtv AIS receiveer and Digital Yacht WiFi multiplexer. Almost 3x the price of the Quark.
The Digital Yacht equipment has worked perfectly out of the box. Targets seen >10nm away.
I have no idea how or why some folk reported success withthe Quark AIS.
 
bnlakeside said:
I posted extensively on this issue last year and it has taken me this long to sort it out.
The moral of the story is that you get what you pay for.
I returned the Quark AIS wireless and a few months later bought another believing that I had first received a dud unit.
Same setup. Exactly the same problem! No targets seen beyonf 2nm range. Returned the unit within 14 days and got a refund.
Bought a Digital Yachtv AIS receiveer and Digital Yacht WiFi multiplexer. Almost 3x the price of the Quark.
The Digital Yacht equipment has worked perfectly out of the box. Targets seen >10nm away.
I have no idea how or why some folk reported success withthe Quark AIS.
Click to expand...

I have an Actisense WiFi NEMA bridge and it works fine with the Navionics on my Sony phone. I can see targets 30 NM away, or something like that, it's been a while since I used it.
 
Without reading all the above,so apologies if repeating or missing vital info. ---- 2 of my friends had AIS range problems in 2018 with new gear & both were solved by changing the coax to the masthead aerials

They thought that they were OK because the VHF worked Ok , But then they realised that they were either communicating with ports such as Ramsgate & Dover at short range, or other cruise members very close by.. Both boats running navionics with some equipment or other. Once changed in the winter of 18/19 there were no further problems
 
bnlakeside said:
I posted extensively on this issue last year and it has taken me this long to sort it out.
The moral of the story is that you get what you pay for.
I returned the Quark AIS wireless and a few months later bought another believing that I had first received a dud unit.
Same setup. Exactly the same problem! No targets seen beyonf 2nm range. Returned the unit within 14 days and got a refund.
Bought a Digital Yachtv AIS receiveer and Digital Yacht WiFi multiplexer. Almost 3x the price of the Quark.
The Digital Yacht equipment has worked perfectly out of the box. Targets seen >10nm away.
I have no idea how or why some folk reported success withthe Quark AIS.
Click to expand...

Glad to hear it is sorted. Some AIS have adjustable parameters and I was wondering if ths was the case with the Quark if not poor sensitivity and your latest one has this parameter set at a greater range. I have a wee black box here that I found going for a tenner in the closing down sale of a local Ham radio shop and it can be set to ignore ships beyond certain distances. I have it set to unlimited and it can actually receive signals from up to about 45 miles. Mind you that is from a house at 600ft west of Edinburgh out into the North Sea.
 
Daydream believer said:
Without reading all the above,so apologies if repeating or missing vital info. ---- 2 of my friends had AIS range problems in 2018 with new gear & both were solved by changing the coax to the masthead aerials

They thought that they were OK because the VHF worked Ok , But then they realised that they were either communicating with ports such as Ramsgate & Dover at short range, or other cruise members very close by.. Both boats running navionics with some equipment or other. Once changed in the winter of 18/19 there were no further problems
Click to expand...
I had the same problem with navionics app on ipad and raymarine plotter it was restricted to 4 mm but with inavx the issue is solfed I can see targets from 36 nm the problem is navionics with a restriction of targets
 
Appreciate this isn't the OP's issue, but whilst we're on the topic of weird things with Navionics and AIS, I spent ages trying to work out why I couldn't see any AIS targets unless I was really zoomed in (unusably so).

It turned out it was related to the "EasyView" setting in Map Options. If you have it turned on, it hides the AIS targets at higher zoom levels. With it turned off, you can see AIS targets zoomed out much further.
 
I have two programs running on my ipad both navionics and inavx they get the same signal, navionics ais does not go further than 4 NM and inavx has no restriction with that I see ships at 36 NM what is the explanation for this I have screenshots but can't upload them
 
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