Navionics Boating app AIS limited range issue

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bnlakeside

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I have fitted a wireless AIS receiver (QUARK-ELEC) which connects to my iPad running Navionics Boating app . Glomex VHF splitter. All working fine.
AIS targets display, but only within a range of 1.5nm! Beyond this they simply disappear.
Antenna tested and system checked with reference antenna. Also tested against another iPad and iPhone. No change.
NAVIONICS helpdesk states that there is no range limit in the Boating app, BUT their website states:
"AIS integration - Connect the app to a compatible Wi-Fi AIS receiver to see nearby targets overlaid on the map"
Note the word "nearby".
Anyone else having this problem?
 
Cannot see how this can be a Navionics issue, we see the same on both chart plotter and App, both independent mapping but common Digital Yachts AIS receiver, is it possible that there is a maximin number of contacts that can displayed by the App?
 
Thanks for these replies.
Power supply is via a clean 12V-USB converter sold by Quark
No LED light on during tests.
System tested with a home made (by a very competent RF engineer!) reference antenna tuned to the frequency of AIS VHF transmission.
Still same result!
BTW the maximum number of contacts displayed is 100 according to Navionics.
I have borrowed 2 further antennae and will test each over the next few days.
Thats for your help.
 
Clearly you need to try it with something other than Navionics, to isolate whether the AIS receiver is only emitting nearby targets (either due to poor reception or some internal range limit of its own), or whether Navionics is applying a filter. Unfortunately AIS sentences aren’t human-readable like most others, but I’m sure there’s some free AIS display tool you could use.

Pete
 
prv said:
Clearly you need to try it with something other than Navionics, to isolate whether the AIS receiver is only emitting nearby targets (either due to poor reception or some internal range limit of its own), or whether Navionics is applying a filter. Unfortunately AIS sentences aren’t human-readable like most others, but I’m sure there’s some free AIS display tool you could use.

Pete

Thanks Pete.
I installed the Digital Yacht app (iAIS) which showed no targets at all even though the iPad was connected to the Quark WiFI AIS receiver.
The Digital Yacht app is described as "designed for use with Digital Yachts iAIS WiFi receiver or any of our other Wireless NMEA products" so I guess thats why it didn't work. Digital yacht specific.
Odd, as DAVERW above reports that his Digital Yachts WiFi AIS receiver data is presented on Navionics Boating which suggests a standard data format.
In my case QUARK-ELEC WiFi data is presented on Navionics Boating, but selectively (ie under 1.5nm).

I cannot find any other apps that will use data from a boat based receiver.
All the other AIS apps I can find eem to present data from land-based receivers via the internet rather than AIS receivers onboard.
Have you come across any others that link to onboard AIS receivers?

The alternative is to find a WiFi connected chart plotter that someone is prepared to lend me!
I'm hopeful that its reception issue as apparently the AIS signals are much lower power than VHF radio, sand my antenna is very old (like the boat).
Tomorrow I'll be trying 2 other antenna I've borrowed.
Fingers crossed.

BTW I'm in Poole.

BW
Barry
Click to expand...
 
Thanks Pete.
I installed the Digital Yacht app (iAIS) which showed no targets at all even though the iPad was connected to the Quark WiFI AIS receiver.
The Digital Yacht app is described as "designed for use with Digital Yachts iAIS WiFi receiver or any of our other Wireless NMEA products" so I guess thats why it didn't work. Digital yacht specific.
Odd, as DAVERW above reports that his Digital Yachts WiFi AIS receiver data is presented on Navionics Boating which suggests a standard data format.
In my case QUARK-ELEC WiFi data is presented on Navionics Boating, but selectively (ie under 1.5nm).

I cannot find any other apps that will use data from a boat based receiver.
All the other AIS apps I can find eem to present data from land-based receivers via the internet rather than AIS receivers onboard.
Have you come across any others that link to onboard AIS receivers?

The alternative is to find a WiFi connected chart plotter that someone is prepared to lend me!
I'm hopeful that its reception issue as apparently the AIS signals are much lower power than VHF radio, sand my antenna is very old (like the boat).
Tomorrow I'll be trying 2 other antenna I've borrowed.
Fingers crossed.

BTW I'm in Poole.

BW
Barry
 
bnlakeside said:
I cannot find any other apps that will use data from a boat based receiver.
All the other AIS apps I can find eem to present data from land-based receivers via the internet rather than AIS receivers onboard.
Click to expand...

It might cost a bit, but the recreational version of SEAiq should be able to pull data from the boat. I believe you have 7 days of free trial with it, so pick a time when you'd be at the boat.

Edit: If you can bring a laptop, you can try OpenCPN too.
 
Last edited:
Thank you very much REQUIEM.
I have downloaded the SEAiq app. The 7 day free trial includes a crude base map but I'm hopeful it will display AIS data as it states ...
  • Requires WiFi enabled AIS/NMEA.
and it immediately displayed AIS data from the internet.
Going out tomorrow from Poole and will "look out" into the Channel.
Will report back.

Barry
 
bnlakeside said:
I have fitted a wireless AIS receiver (QUARK-ELEC) which connects to my iPad running Navionics Boating app . Glomex VHF splitter. All working fine.
AIS targets display, but only within a range of 1.5nm! Beyond this they simply disappear.
Antenna tested and system checked with reference antenna. Also tested against another iPad and iPhone. No change.
NAVIONICS helpdesk states that there is no range limit in the Boating app, BUT their website states:
"AIS integration - Connect the app to a compatible Wi-Fi AIS receiver to see nearby targets overlaid on the map"
Note the word "nearby".
Anyone else having this problem?
Click to expand...
DO you have any filters set? I have a Vesper AIS transponder and switch off all targets over 6nm.
 
Hi Sandy
The AIS part of the Navionics menu has no option for filters.
It has "Safe Range" and "Time to intersect" settings as part of the "Collision sound alarm". Also Vector length. Nothing else.

I am still awaiting a response form Navionics regarding the wording on their website ("nearby targets") but is seems like others have no problem with AIS range using this navigation app. Perhaps by "nearby"they mean those within VHF range and not global like internet based AIS apps. That thought has just occurred to me!
 
Just set up a Q026 system and have exactly the same issue. I don’t think it is the Navionics software that is the issue. My Standard Horizon plotter only shows limited targets, which matches what the Quark is sending to my Navionics app. I just spent £25 on the Quark 12v to 5v usb supply because I wondered if the cheap ‘n cheerful supply I bought from eBay was upsetting the Quark. Will see tomorrow if it works. It feels like the Quark has a signal strength ‘gate’ that filters out weak signals. My setup hasnt reported a vessel greater than 2 miles away since I bought it; even when I can see them visually....
 
That’s interesting. Same problem as I am having. Also using the Quark 5V supply.
Could well be a signal strength Issue. I’m trying 2 other VHF antennas tomorrow and will report results.
 
dje67 said:
Just set up a Q026 system and have exactly the same issue. I don’t think it is the Navionics software that is the issue. My Standard Horizon plotter only shows limited targets, which matches what the Quark is sending to my Navionics app. I just spent £25 on the Quark 12v to 5v usb supply because I wondered if the cheap ‘n cheerful supply I bought from eBay was upsetting the Quark. Will see tomorrow if it works. It feels like the Quark has a signal strength ‘gate’ that filters out weak signals. My setup hasnt reported a vessel greater than 2 miles away since I bought it; even when I can see them visually....
Click to expand...

Hi
How did you get on with the clean USB power supply?
I have now tried 3 different antennae with the same results, so I don't think its a reception issue. One target today was a cruise liner no doubt with powerful Class A AIS transmitter anchored off Bournemouth and it dropped off the Boating screen at 3 nm!
I have noted that the QUARK A026 receiver is not listed by Navionics as compatible with teh Boating app although QUARK insisted that it was when i ordered it.
I have written to Navionics to query this. Will let you know.
 
bnlakeside said:
Hi
How did you get on with the clean USB power supply?
I have now tried 3 different antennae with the same results, so I don't think its a reception issue. One target today was a cruise liner no doubt with powerful Class A AIS transmitter anchored off Bournemouth and it dropped off the Boating screen at 3 nm!
I have noted that the QUARK A026 receiver is not listed by Navionics as compatible with teh Boating app although QUARK insisted that it was when i ordered it.
I have written to Navionics to query this. Will let you know.
Click to expand...
I would echo the suggestion that you need to try open cpn, or capture the ais data being spat out from the quark device and look at it. There are various online sites that will decode it for you. I think the navionics route is a red herring, without knowing what messages are being captured, you are clutching at straws.
 
My Q026 feeds out to Navionics via wifi and direct wire to my Standard Horizon CP180 plotter. Both displays are showing the same targets, so I don;t believe this is a Navionics software issue.

I temporarily connected by Q026 to my masthead VHF antenna and a few more targets appeared from further away (4 miles).

I've been reading a few posts on other sites and many people quote using a cheap 'n chearful antenna on the pushpit and see targets from 10 miles away (sometime several times that distance) - I can barely see anythng outside the marina... I get nowhere near that distance with my setup. I checked my Glomex wiring today and all seemed OK. I replaced the coax yesterday - no change/difference. I also changed the power supply - no change/difference.

So, I'm pretty confident that the combination of Glomex antenna and Quark A026 is not a reliable setup. I suppose I could get a spliiter for the masthead antenna but I'm getting a bit pee'd of spending money trying to get the hardware I've got working.

I'll try to use the masthead antenna into the Quark sometime this week and see what distances I'm getting

I'd be interested to know what sort of range other people get with a Quark and what antenna thay use.
 
If it's useful to know, I also have a Wi-Fi AIS broadcast from our Vesper Marine XB-8000 and it works fine over Navionics. I've not checked the precise range but it is definitely more then 1.5nm (the same unit also feeds AIS info to our fixed plotter and this extends to 20 miles or so).

I have to say that whilst I rate most aspects of Navionics, I think the new AIS features are a bit mickey-mouse. No CPA, TCPA, ROT etc. If you want to try a mobile plotter with connected AIS (not internet), iSailor does the job much better (but has other downsides, namely the costs).

On another note, are you confident that your VHF antenna and coax is in good shape? What is your VHF range like? Signal loss will cause havoc with your AIS and will often start out with a lack of range. I've been down this road twice now and having a new aerial and coax fitted results in an incredible improvement...
 
alexincornwall said:
If it's useful to know, I also have a Wi-Fi AIS broadcast from our Vesper Marine XB-8000 and it works fine over Navionics. I've not checked the precise range but it is definitely more then 1.5nm (the same unit also feeds AIS info to our fixed plotter and this extends to 20 miles or so).

I have to say that whilst I rate most aspects of Navionics, I think the new AIS features are a bit mickey-mouse. No CPA, TCPA, ROT etc. If you want to try a mobile plotter with connected AIS (not internet), iSailor does the job much better (but has other downsides, namely the costs).

On another note, are you confident that your VHF antenna and coax is in good shape? What is your VHF range like? Signal loss will cause havoc with your AIS and will often start out with a lack of range. I've been down this road twice now and having a new aerial and coax fitted results in an incredible improvement...
Click to expand...

I replaced the coax this week, which removed a cable joint. The total run is about 6m, but it is RG58 cable. Maybe need higher spec, which I might try.

The next thing I'll try is moving the antenna to another location - I have twin backstays that terminate either side of the transom next to the antenna location - maybe about 3/4 meter separation.

My antenna is a standard model that many people use, so I'd be surprised it it isn't good (at the end of the day, it is just a straight length of coated wire..!).
 
If you’re doing the testing in a marina, be aware that you may not be getting an accurate picture of AIS reception as there’s a lot that could interfere with it. When I fitted my AIS I got little or no target beyond a couple of miles whilst on the hard: I now routinely get 12-15 miles at sea from a pushpit mounted antenna. I attributed this to the forest of masts between me and the sea blocking the relatively weak AIS signals: bear in mind that the transmission is only 12.5 watts for class A and 2 watts for Class B.
 
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