Navionics Auto Routing

[Irish Rover]

I started another thread on this but I'm re-posting here under the new title in case it may be of specif interest to others using Navionics and might be missed because of the title of the other thread. What follows below is an exchange of correspondence between me [black] and Navionics [blue]and is all very self explanatory. This is what Navionics says on it's website about Dock to Dock Autorouting

A unique breakthrough
All autorouting existing today can find a route from A to B only if they are both in open water, while good guidance and planning is most needed in cramped complex waterways with a maze of variables. A unique breakthrough in boating navigation, Navionics Dock-to-dock Autorouting, instead, quickly calculates a detailed route even through narrow passages and channels, based on chart data and navigation aids.



Hi,
Can you help me please. If I set an automatic course does the course you
plot for me take account of Colregs for instance in relation to traversing
or crossing a TSS.

Thank you for contacting Navionics.
Dock-to-dock Autorouting takes COLREGS and TSS into account to calculate the route accurately and safely. It quickly creates detailed routes even through narrow waterways and channels, based on chart data and navigation aids. POI nearby the destination like the harbor master, marinas and moorings, fuel stations, restaurants and bars, shops, taxis, launch services and more, now appear automatically within the Autorouting menu.
For best results, make sure that you check your draft setting and start/end point placement. Draft is automatically placed at the default setting of 33ft (about 10mt) when you purchase Autorouting. Go to Menu > Settings > Boat Settings and set properly your draft. Dock-to-dock Autorouting is for general planning and reference only – it does NOT replace safe navigation practices and should never be your only reference source.
Attached are some additional documents for instruction and reference.
Please be advised that our office hours are 9:30am-4:30pm (offices in USA are EST, and office in Italy CET). As our office is not open on weekends, we typically experience a high volume of emails on Monday and answer all inquiries as quickly and efficiently as possible, in the order they are received.
For additional support, access Navionics online Help or Chat Now with a live agent.

Thank you for your e mail in response to my query of 5 days ago dated 15 March. I had assumed your auto routing would take account of Colregs and TSS but when i used auto routing to plot a course through the Saronic from Corinth to the Island of Kea it has me crossing the TS line at an angle of about 45 degrees whereas Colregs require that " A vessel shall, so far as practicable, avoid crossing traffic lanes but if obliged to do so shall cross on a heading as nearly as practicable at right angles to the general direction of traffic flow". I would be obliged if you could explain this apparent anomaly. Screen shot attached.

Thank you for the screenshot. This is certainly something that we will investigate further. If you could, please provide your start and end coordinates for testing purposes on our side. This way we can determine the best resolution. Thank you for your kind cooperation.

Coordinates sent

Your case has been submitted to Technical Support for assistance. Our Algorithm is not taking care of the Traffic Separation Zone as per the Colregs. There is just an alert to inform of the presence of the TSS and the route is not drawn perpendicular. Please let me know if you need additional clarifications.

Thank you. However I am greatly concerned that on first enquiry I was told otherwise and it appears to me you were not aware of this until I brought it to your notice. I would like to ask now:
1. Do you plan to correct this anomaly,
2. Are there other similar anomalies of which I should be aware concerning safety and COLREGS, and
3. Are you planning to issue an advisory or warning about this.

Apologize for the late reply.
Contrary to the initial information provided by Customer Service, the D2D Autorouting algorithm does not contemplate for specific Colregs regulations.
The D2D Autorouting feature is a planning assistant and the proposed route is to be verified and where necessary to be edited manually. While calculating a Route, Dock-to-dock Autorouting might consider some Route legs hazardous (shown in red). In this case, a red alert button will display on the screen along with a warning listing critical situations for any Route leg. This also applies when the route is proposing the crossing of a TSS.
Do not hesitate to contact me for any further clarification.

 

[[163233]]

Your ground track isn't necessarily perpendicular to the lane anyway or have I got it wrong again?

 

[Poignard]

Your ground track isn't necessarily perpendicular to the lane anyway or have I got it wrong again?

"(c) A vessel shall, so far as practicable, avoid crossing traffic lanes but if obliged to do so shall cross on a heading as nearly as practicable at right angles to the general direction of traffic flow."

 

[johnalison]

I can't imagine a circumstance in which I would wish to autoroute. For me, the creation of a route is part of my planning, and thinking the route through and examining it at different scales an essential precaution. Some of my routes are quite complex, visiting numerous waypoints, but setting up only takes a few minutes.

 

[prv]

"(c) A vessel shall, so far as practicable, avoid crossing traffic lanes but if obliged to do so shall cross on a heading as nearly as practicable at right angles to the general direction of traffic flow."

Note "heading", not track.

Not that I would expect Navionics to make allowance for the difference even if they did understand TSSes.

Pete

 

[Poignard]

I treat it purely as a suggested route and check it very carefully before using it, as the OP obviously does.

 

[prv]

As for the general subject of the thread -

Translation: Non-sailing customer-service person has never heard of Colregs and TSSes but has been told that Autorouting is jolly clever.

Pete

 

[sailaboutvic]

Hi IR
I been using Navionics for some time now as an aid, just as I use my plotter , Radar or AIS , I don't rely on any of this stuff , for short distant there great but you can't beat backing this up with a chart and backing everything up , this is the problem now days so many just rely on Aids and so many skipper have no idea how to get from A to B without them no wonder there so many boats about now.
as a full time liveaboard I have plenty of time to talk to people and at times I am shocked how little they know about Navigation , its not the first we been called up on the VHF and asked if they are going the right way to X .
i like using Nav as a quick and reference to getting from A to B but if there any TSS ,shallows banks , rocks on route or coastal , I will use a chart to check ,
the answer you got in the email from Nav would be one I would had expected.

 

[[163233]]

Note "heading", not track.

Not that I would expect Navionics to make allowance for the difference even if they did understand TSSes.

Yes, it'd have to know when and how fast you were doing it to tell you which way the ground track would go.

There's a TSS up in the North Channel which gets 2 knots of tide along it at times, so a small yacht trundling along at 3 knots will have a ground track at around 45 degrees to the TSS if it headed straight across, and there's that awkward kink.

Here:- https://webapp.navionics.com/#boating@8&key=qvwpIb~ad@

 

[westhinder]

I can't imagine a circumstance in which I would wish to autoroute. For me, the creation of a route is part of my planning, and thinking the route through and examining it at different scales an essential precaution. Some of my routes are quite complex, visiting numerous waypoints, but setting up only takes a few minutes.

Absolutely agree.
I cannot imagine anyone generating a route with D2D, and without further checks feeding it to the autopilot to follow automatically. But as it is technically possible, sooner or later some people will do just that.
Sometimes developers need to ask the question whether what is feasible is also desirable. If it is not, do not put it on the market.

 

[johnalison]

Sometimes developers need to ask the question whether what is feasible is also desirable. If it is I not, do not put it on the market.

I was going to say that but was feeling too polite.

 

[Irish Rover]

Thanks to every one for their input. I have been using Garmin autorouting for years as a way to plan my trips, estimate distance and time etc. I haven't had an autopilot up to now so all steering was done manually. I have a very basic AP on the new to me boat but it's A2B straight line capable only and is not connected to a plotter so most everything will be manual. I will of course be using charts and have a full set for my upcoming journey and I've been getting some additional help from Rod and Lucinda, Noonsite and a couple of helpful souls on here. As I said on the other thread I have no experience of traversing or crossing a TSS and that's why I raised the question in the first instance. Obviously if I was ever planning to follow the autorouting blindly I would never have noticed this issue.
I do think the Navionics marketing blurb is highly misleading and their reply to my initial e mail downright dangerous. I do believe there are many younger boaters far less experienced than most of the old hands on here who have come to trust and rely on technology in every aspect of life.

 

[lpdsn]

There's a TSS up in the North Channel which gets 2 knots of tide along it at times, so a small yacht trundling along at 3 knots will have a ground track at around 45 degrees to the TSS if it headed straight across, and there's that awkward kink.

Here:- https://webapp.navionics.com/#boating@8&key=qvwpIb~ad@

Fortunately, not exactly the busiest TSS in the world.

 

[johnalison]

Fortunately, not exactly the busiest TSS in the world.

It is like that in the Dover straights, but you might find the odd ship going past.

 

[lpdsn]

It is like that in the Dover straights, but you might find the odd ship going past.

Maybe more in 15 mins than the North Channel TSS gets in a day, but otherwise just the same.

 

[Leighb]

I have only just started to play with the Navionics Autoroute function on my Mac. It does seem to very quickly generate a route from, in this case Harwich to the Medway, however it prefers to send you outside the Gunfleet rather than down the Wallet and through the Spitway. However what is really perverse is that it routes you down the old channel off Foulness rather than the new buoyed channel through the Middle Deep. The only way to avoid this is to put in a series of extra waypoints to force the route to go the right way. The new buoyage is on the chart though!!

I think it could be a useful facility, but to be used with great care and certainly not blindly use the generated route with an Autopilot !!

 

[Poignard]

[...]
I think it could be a useful facility, but to be used with great care and certainly not blindly use the generated route with an Autopilot !!

Absolutely. Look on it like a crewmember whom you don't know very well but who claims to know how to navigate. By all means let him/her come up with a plan but check it very carefully before adopting it!

 

[maby]

I have only used Navionics Autorouting a few times and it has always come up with a reasonable solution, but I certainly would not simply set it and go. It is useful to come up with an initial route that you can subsequently check and correct. Working manually, I usually find that I've put in far too many waypoints and end up following a lazy zig-zag to my destination. Autorouting usually seems to manage to trim one or two nautical miles off my manual attempt.

 

[Irish Rover]

I have only used Navionics Autorouting a few times and it has always come up with a reasonable solution, but I certainly would not simply set it and go. It is useful to come up with an initial route that you can subsequently check and correct. Working manually, I usually find that I've put in far too many waypoints and end up following a lazy zig-zag to my destination. Autorouting usually seems to manage to trim one or two nautical miles off my manual attempt.

I'd certainly be in agreement with all that but I still think it is wrong that Navionics and others offering autorouting make claims for their products which they can not fulfill.

 

[maby]

I'd certainly be in agreement with all that but I still think it is wrong that Navionics and others offering autorouting make claims for their products which they can not fulfill.

Certainly so - though my experience of them is that their description of auto-routing is heavily caveated - perhaps that has now changed.