Navigation sidelights & sternlight positioning

[richard77777]

I'm concerned that the navigation sidelights and stern lights on my 26' boat are probably wrong and would appreciate advice. Specifically, there are two sets of sidelights and two sternlights coming on, one set just above deck level, and another set at the top of the mast, whereas, (assuming I’ve understood the Colregs correctly), only one set should come on, not both.
A boat electrician is going to correct it, but has asked which nav lights I would prefer, mast top or deck level.
Which option would the experts go for? I was thinking of going for deck level, on the basis that it is then easier to change a bulb, but I’d welcome advice as to which is best.
If I've read the regs correctly, I can’t understand why the previous owner(s) fitted both sets, but perhaps the mast top set came first and then the deck level ones were added later, maybe for ease of changing bulbs or perhaps due to mis-reading the regs.
I confirm that the mast top lights currently fitted are not the "all-round lights in a vertical line" type mentioned in Rule 25(c).
If, however, I've misunderstood the regs, please tell me.
Thank you in advance.

 

[Daverw]

We have both and they are on separate switches so we chose which to use

 

[Dellquay13]

the mast top tricolour is only for use under sail when no other lights should be shown, the half mast forward white, red and green side lights and white stern light should be used whenever under power, but the two different sets should never be used at the same time.
See the Colregs for sailboats and for motorboats.

 

[Pye_End]

Could do with a bit more detail of what exactly you have eg. masthead tricolour; masthead all round white; any other motoring white (not just stern lamp eg forward facing white half way up the mast).

 

[VicS]

You should not have deck level lights and a tricolour in use at the same time ....... One or the other

I have :

• A tricolour for use when sailing, if appropriate
• Deck level sidelights and stern light which can be used instead of the tricolour if more appropriate eg close inshore when a tricolour may be lost amongst shore lights.
• A masthead , or "steaming" light to use in conjunction with the side and stern lights when under power

The switching prevents an "illegal" combination being used.

You may find the attached diagrams helpful

 

[JumbleDuck]

You should not have deck level lights and a tricolour in use at the same time ....... One or the other

I agree, but I'm curious ... is it actually banned? I think the applicable rule is

Obviously having a masthead and deck level stern light ain't on, as it looks like something else, but how about the masthead tricolour and pulpit bicolour my boat was built with? I have never felt an urge to use them together, but could I? I'm pretty sure I have seen ships with two sidelights, one above the other..

 

[Refueler]

The question I feel comes down to this :

Do the Deck level lights get hidden by foresail ? Many sail boats - when the foresail is set - covers one of the lights based on which tack.
Tricolours were developed to solve two items - visibility using height and second to avoid shadowing by sails .... the matter of lost in shore lights etc. is an additional lesser factor.

If the deck level lights are fitted to the outside of pulpit as I have - then Tricolour IMHO is not needed unless you wish to have that height and visibility.
If the deck level lights are fitted to cabin side / inside the gunwhale line - then the Tricolour is better when sailing.

The interesting bit comes when motoring ... the rules only specify light angles and ranges ... and to comply with positioning as close as possible. (OK - that was allowed more for Aircraft Carriers .. submarines etc where the usual disposition is not possible). If you just have tricolour and then you switch on fwd 'steaming light' .... very nice ... White part way down mast ... tricolour at top ..
This is where the deck level lights are IMHO better. You then have the classic high white .. low sides.

So may I suggest that the two light setups be retained ... BUT separated so you choose which to use ?

Note regarding ships with two sets ..... all ships have dual lights - one set as back up ... also it can be to solve problems arising from design / cargo carrying of the vessel ... and if you look at some Ferries - they can reverse the light setup depending on which direction the ferry is moving - Double-enders ! Crazy I know - but true.

 

[Neeves]

We have both and they are on separate switches so we chose which to use

We too have two complete and independent sets of nav lights, masthead and deck.

We use the masthead assembly at sea, where hopefully being at the top of the mast they are seen at a distance.

We have another set at deck level for those times we are moving in rivers and confined spaces.

The engine or steaming light is common to both, we have one light only and it has a separate switch. So we can use tricolour alone, tricolour + steaming or deck lights alone or deck lights plus steaming. If we were navigating a river we would probably be working under engine and have deck and steaming light on.

The other reason, then, for having lights at deck level was simply to allow easy bulb replacement (with LEDs maybe that will not happen often).

We could have them all on, there is no clever piece of wizardry to stop that being done -but we don't do it.

If you are paying an electrician to make some modifications I'd suggest a switch for each of the 2 systems then you have redundancy and can choose which lights you want to use at any specfic time (but ask for a quote first!).

Jonathan

 

[Dellquay13]

are the colregs not very specific that when under power the white steaming light has to be at least 1m above the side lights wherever practicable, which means you shouldn't combine a masthead tricolour and a half mast steaming light?

 

[Refueler]

are the colregs not very specific that when under power the white steaming light has to be at least 1m above the side lights wherever practicable, which means you shouldn't combine a masthead tricolour and a half mast steaming light?

You typed it yourself :

"wherever practicable"

The Rules actually allow placement depending on the design and situation of the vessel - as I said primarily written to cater for such as vessels as Aircraft Carriers / Submarines etc.

What are you going to do with the boat that has only Tricolour and Steaming Light ? Force Owner to add Deck level lights ? Yes there are a few boats like that.

 

[richard77777]

Thank you all for the excellent and practical advice, which I have found really useful.

In reply to Pye-End, I currently have:
1 Sidelights just above deck level and stern light at similar height;
2 Masthead tri-colour & anchor light;
3 Steaming lamp.

 

[Refueler]

Thank you all for the excellent and practical advice, which I have found really useful.

In reply to Pye-End, I currently have:
1 Sidelights just above deck level and stern light at similar height;
2 Masthead tri-colour & anchor light;
3 Steaming lamp.

But where are your deck level lights ? Does either get hidden when genny is out and you are sailing ?

 

[richard77777]

Good point, thanks. They are positioned either side of the saloon/coach house, a little above the sidedeck.
Yes, I think they could be obscured by the genny and I will need to check that. Thanks for alerting me to the issue.

 

[Pye_End]

Thank you all for the excellent and practical advice, which I have found really useful.

In reply to Pye-End, I currently have:
1 Sidelights just above deck level and stern light at similar height;
2 Masthead tri-colour & anchor light;
3 Steaming lamp.

OK that is useful. You have plenty of scope for options with this set-up. Separate switches will give you that flexibility.

In short, I would use tricolour for sailing (largely), and 1 and 3 for motoring, though you could sail with just 1 if you felt the need - eg. busy area or close inshore where there are other confusing lights. Just think what you would like to see in the circumstances you are in for quickest recognition.

For motoring you also have the option of sidelights plus anchor light at masthead. The anchor light may well be lower wattage, but sometimes there is a height advantage eg big seas.

 

[Dellquay13]

You typed it yourself :

"wherever practicable"

The Rules actually allow placement depending on the design and situation of the vessel - as I said primarily written to cater for such as vessels as Aircraft Carriers / Submarines etc.

What are you going to do with the boat that has only Tricolour and Steaming Light ? Force Owner to add Deck level lights ? Yes there are a few boats like that.

It wouldn't be inpracticable to retrofit such a boat with deck level lights, possibly inconvenient or expensive, but colregs aren't concerned with those factors.
My first boat was a Dellquay Dory which was a struggle to get a steaming white a metre above the gunnels, so i had to settle for the longest pole lamp in the Greek chandlers which was about 60cm, and I couldn't get it in line with the bow centre bicolour, so it had to be offset to starboard by 1m away from the outboard. My Shetland has the sternlight offset to starboard, again for the outboard.
On those boats, following the regs to the letter was not practicable, but IMHO choosing to not have deck lights below the steaming light on a yacht because of inconvenience or expense would be stretching the spirit of the colregs, but for understandable reasons.

 

[Pye_End]

I agree, but I'm curious ... is it actually banned? I think the applicable rule is

Obviously having a masthead and deck level stern light ain't on, as it looks like something else, but how about the masthead tricolour and pulpit bicolour my boat was built with? I have never felt an urge to use them together, but could I? I'm pretty sure I have seen ships with two sidelights, one above the other..

It is so much easier at night if you can quickly recognise what is around you. Anything other than the lights which are taught requires thinking time. Red over red, at a distance, as you propose, could be other things, or a badly lit yacht. Whatever it is, it is a distraction you don't want.

Have never seen a ship with duplicate lights. Confusing maybe because of other vessels, or deck lights etc. perhaps.

 

[neil1967]

We have a Tri colour, deck level lights and a steaming light, as I suspect most yachts do. When rearranging the electrics recently I installed a multi-pole rotary switch and a couple of diodes so that you can't make a mistake - the combinations are: (Off); Steaming (deck level + steaming light); deck level; tricolour. Simples!

 

[richard77777]

OK that is useful. You have plenty of scope for options with this set-up. Separate switches will give you that flexibility.

In short, I would use tricolour for sailing (largely), and 1 and 3 for motoring, though you could sail with just 1 if you felt the need - eg. busy area or close inshore where there are other confusing lights. Just think what you would like to see in the circumstances you are in for quickest recognition.

For motoring you also have the option of sidelights plus anchor light at masthead. The anchor light may well be lower wattage, but sometimes there is a height advantage eg big seas.

Thanks very much - that's very helpful.

 

[richard77777]

Thanks again for all the further contributions. All much appreciated.

 

[Refueler]

It wouldn't be inpracticable to retrofit such a boat with deck level lights, possibly inconvenient or expensive, but colregs aren't concerned with those factors.
My first boat was a Dellquay Dory which was a struggle to get a steaming white a metre above the gunnels, so i had to settle for the longest pole lamp in the Greek chandlers which was about 60cm, and I couldn't get it in line with the bow centre bicolour, so it had to be offset to starboard by 1m away from the outboard. My Shetland has the sternlight offset to starboard, again for the outboard.
On those boats, following the regs to the letter was not practicable, but IMHO choosing to not have deck lights below the steaming light on a yacht because of inconvenience or expense would be stretching the spirit of the colregs, but for understandable reasons.

Don't get me wrong - I agree that with average yacht - complying with the positioning is not really an issue. But the Regs are not cast in stone - that is my point.

I am not a great lover of tricolours I have to admit ... as a Bridge WatchOfficer - I found them 'strange' ..... at times they were seen as if someone was waving a multi coloured lamp !!