Navigation Lights

[pgtips]

I own a Dufour 30 and have a query regarding the navigation lights. The original setup on the boat is a tri-colour and all round white at the top of the mast along with a bi-colour at the masthead.

I recently had some work carried out on the boat and was told that this lighting setup isn't correct but this is as fitted by Dufour.

The issue seems to be when under power whereby the all round white and the masthead bi-colour would be used.

From what I can see looking at the colregs this should be okay although the bi-colour at masthead could be open to debate.

I checked other boats at the marina today and it seems to be the French manufacturers that go for all round white and bi-colour setup.

Would be interested in views from the panel.

 

[VicS]

I own a Dufour 30 and have a query regarding the navigation lights. The original setup on the boat is a tri-colour and all round white at the top of the mast along with a bi-colour at the masthead.

I recently had some work carried out on the boat and was told that this lighting setup isn't correct but this is as fitted by Dufour.

The issue seems to be when under power whereby the all round white and the masthead bi-colour would be used.

From what I can see looking at the colregs this should be okay although the bi-colour at masthead could be open to debate.

I checked other boats at the marina today and it seems to be the French manufacturers that go for all round white and bi-colour setup.

Would be interested in views from the panel.

The allround white + the bicolour are perfectly Ok as lights for use under power provided there is a minimum of 1 metre vertical separation.


From astern just a white will be visible

from the side either a red or a green with white above will be visible

 

[pgtips]

Thanks Vic. That was my understanding as the light combination is as per the regs. I just wonder if people assume that when lights are referred to as sidelights these should be at deck level?

There is certainly one than one metre between the masthead light and all round white.

Concern I have is that it was a contractor at the marina that said the bi-colour shouldn't be where it was and he's put a white light in it's place so I'm not legal at all now!!

Will be getting him to put the bi-colour back!

 

[VicS]

Ships dont have their side lights at deck level............. up on the superstructure some where.

 

[VicS]

deleted haing reread the OP

 

[Robin]

I own a Dufour 30 and have a query regarding the navigation lights. The original setup on the boat is a tri-colour and all round white at the top of the mast along with a bi-colour at the masthead.

I recently had some work carried out on the boat and was told that this lighting setup isn't correct but this is as fitted by Dufour.

The issue seems to be when under power whereby the all round white and the masthead bi-colour would be used.

From what I can see looking at the colregs this should be okay although the bi-colour at masthead could be open to debate.

I checked other boats at the marina today and it seems to be the French manufacturers that go for all round white and bi-colour setup.

Would be interested in views from the panel.

It is a most likely 'tri' colour at the masthead not a bicolour and has a white sector pointing aft through the correct sector, a tricolour used over an all round white ( intended for an anchor light wouln not be correct for motoring at night, on smaller vessels the all round white at the mast top could be used in conjunction with a bow mounted bicolour or a pair of red/green sidelights, and no separate sternlight, for use under engine. I always favoured using a tricolour under sail in open waters, mostly for it's single bulb's reduction in 12VDC power consumption but it was also visible better and longer range in big seas In pilotage waters however we would switch to our bow bicolour , separate stern light abd steaming light on the front of the mast above the spreaders.

THese days however we have a low power consumption LED bicolour light mounted on the pulpit, with a separate white LED stern light on the transom these together are fine, legal and visible under sail and with acceptably low DC amps consumption. For when motoring we turn on the steaming light as well, We have a combined steaming light and deck flood option mounted above the spreaders facing forwards and showing a white light through the correct arc. This is non-LED, but under power we have plenty of amps available from the engine and it has the required visibility range . Deck level nav. lights are much better for use n pilotage area situations IMO as they are more clearly seen by others, being at at eye level than if masthead mounted. The only drawback is that the deck level lights can reflect back spoiling night vision for the helm and lookouts, usually controllable with some judicious use of black tape on the polished stainless of the pulpit.

 

[pgtips]

but the bicolour on the mast will be obscured by the foresail when sailing

The tri-colour will be on when sailing which is on top of the mast but I do wonder how visible the bi-colour will be with a furled foresail in front of it??

 

[pgtips]

It is a most likely 'tri' colour at the masthead not a bicolour and has a white sector pointing aft through the correct sector, a tricolour used over an all round white ( intended for an anchor light wouln not be correct for motoring at night, on smaller vessels the all round white at the mast top could be used in conjunction with a bow mounted bicolour or a pair of red/green sidelights, and no separate sternlight, for use under engine. I always favoured using a tricolour under sail in open waters, mostly for it's single bulb's reduction in 12VDC power consumption but it was also visible better and longer range in big seas In pilotage waters however we would switch to our bow bicolour , separate stern light abd steaming light on the front of the mast above the spreaders.

THese days however we have a low power consumption LED bicolour light mounted on the pulpit, with a separate white LED stern light on the transom these together are fine, legal and visible under sail and with acceptably low DC amps consumption. For when motoring we turn on the steaming light as well, We have a combined steaming light and deck flood option mounted above the spreaders facing forwards and showing a white light through the correct arc. This is non-LED, but under power we have plenty of amps available from the engine and it has the required visibility range . Deck level nav. lights are much better for use n pilotage area situations IMO as they are more clearly seen by others, being at at eye level than if masthead mounted. The only drawback is that the deck level lights can reflect back spoiling night vision for the helm and lookouts, usually controllable with some judicious use of black tape on the polished stainless of the pulpit.

The tricolour is at the top of the mast whilst the bicolour is mounted in the spot where your steaming light is i.e. In line with the spreaders.

When steaming the Dufor setup is for the all round white at the top of the mast to be on with the bicolour.

This does seem slightly unusual but is the original factory setup and would appear to comply with regs

 

[Robin]

The tricolour is at the top of the mast whilst the bicolour is mounted in the spot where your steaming light is i.e. In line with the spreaders.

When steaming the Dufor setup is for the all round white at the top of the mast to be on with the bicolour.

This does seem slightly unusual but is the original factory setup and would appear to comply with regs

I think your contractor needs to put things back how/where they were and at his cost. The Bi colour would be hidden by the headsail and is better mounted on the pulpit, get mr Ex 'spurt' to remove the white thing and swap it for a pulpit mounted (LED) bicolour? The French never were good with using nav lights so mounting them sensibly is probably asking a lot. our last Jeanneau was wired so the steering compass lights only worked with the tricolour switched on after all nobody needs a compass when motoring at night do they...

 

[pgtips]

I think your contractor needs to put things back how/where they were and at his cost. The Bi colour would be hidden by the headsail and is better mounted on the pulpit, get mr Ex 'spurt' to remove the white thing and swap it for a pulpit mounted (LED) bicolour? The French never were good with using nav lights so mounting them sensibly is probably asking a lot. our last Jeanneau was wired so the steering compass lights only worked with the tricolour switched on after all nobody needs a compass when motoring at night do they...

I can only assume he thought there were nav lights on the pulpit but didn't actually check!?

I'll probably go for a pulpit mounted bicolour as it would seem to be more visible. Only issue will be running the wiring as could be fun trying to thread this back to the fuse panel.

 

[Robin]

I can only assume he thought there were nav lights on the pulpit but didn't actually check!?

I'll probably go for a pulpit mounted bicolour as it would seem to be more visible. Only issue will be running the wiring as could be fun trying to thread this back to the fuse panel.

Is it a fractional rig perhaps with the bicolour above the headstay?, that might work but I would still prefer it lower for in harbour close quarters use. If your Dufour is like our current benny, there are conduits everywhere for running cables and the locations are shown in diagrams in the owner's manual, I think some of ours even had spare pull through strings left in place, I know our electronics man found a few such when we had all new stuff put in.

 

[bbg]

I think your contractor needs to put things back how/where they were and at his cost. The Bi colour would be hidden by the headsail and is better mounted on the pulpit,

I don't think that is correct. When sailing the masthead tricolour light would be used. When motoring the masthead all around plus the mast mounted bi colour. The bicolour would be no more obstructed than a mast mounted steaming light would be.

 

[Robin]

I don't think that is correct. When sailing the masthead tricolour light would be used. When motoring the masthead all around plus the mast mounted bi colour. The bicolour would be no more obstructed than a mast mounted steaming light would be.

True but then the steaming light is not a two sector light where the colour change is important and might be obscured by a rolled headsail?

 

[VicS]

True but then the steaming light is not a two sector light where the colour change is important and might be obscured by a rolled headsail?

But the obscured angle will be very small, smaller than the accuracy with which the course will be steered, so although the light might be briefly and intermittently obscured from anyone dead ahead it wont be totally obscured for more than a second or two . The white steaming light will be visible anyway so the boat wont ever be totally invisible.

In the worst case youd see the white with a red or green below, the coloured light would briefly vanish and then the other color appear i its place , only for the reverse to happen shortly after and then the sequence to be repeated over and over.

You'd not need two active brain cells, one and a half should figure that out!

 

[ancientsailor]

This may help? Apologies - best on a laptop or PC - haven't had time to update for tablet or phone!

http://sailskills.co.uk/colregs/Sailskills_lights&shapes_sail_under_sail_&_power.html

Try following the links to the "animations" - there is one where the white "masthead" light is obscured by a headsail.

 

[Robin]

But the obscured angle will be very small, smaller than the accuracy with which the course will be steered, so although the light might be briefly and intermittently obscured from anyone dead ahead it wont be totally obscured for more than a second or two . The white steaming light will be visible anyway so the boat wont ever be totally invisible.

In the worst case youd see the white with a red or green below, the coloured light would briefly vanish and then the other color appear i its place , only for the reverse to happen shortly after and then the sequence to be repeated over and over.

You'd not need two active brain cells, one and a half should figure that out!

In Florida you would need the whole population working together as one to see 11/2 brain cells in use simultaneously.