Naval Gun droop.

[38mess]

View attachment 103191

This is HMS Gambia, my first ship, on a visit to Rotterdam in 1960 and looking pretty smart, although I don't remember how she got that dent!

The gun director can be seen above the bridge.

If that got knocked out the guns could be controlled locally.

During my 2-1/2 years in her she never fired at anything in anger but we had plenty of gunnery exercises, firing at towed targets.

She's a fine looking ship. A proper ship in my eyes. I was always fascinated by the old radars on these ship, to me they looked sinister.

 

[Wansworth]

Bit like the human anatomy......

 

[BurnitBlue]

View attachment 103191

This is HMS Gambia, my first ship, on a visit to Rotterdam in 1960 and looking pretty smart, although I don't remember how she got that dent!

The gun director can be seen above the bridge.

If that got knocked out the guns could be controlled locally.

During my 2-1/2 years in her she never fired at anything in anger but we had plenty of gunnery exercises, firing at towed targets.

Love the high yardarms with room for many signal flag messages like "I will look for you. Then I will kill you". Seriously though, why such high structures? No hope of sneaking up closer below the horizon. Your submarines had the answer using a 2 inch high periscope to sneak up really close. Just kidding.

 

[BurnitBlue]

What I have always found interesting is that the guns on a cruiser like Sheffield were all controlled by a gunnery director who aimed and fired a broadside with a single trigger.

What I always find interesting is the immense difference between a bombers flight deck with multiple switches and dials and winking lights to a massive ships bridge with a pair of binoculars. KISS.

 

[richardsn9]

I believe they had a basic aim computer, they also had to take the curvature of the earth into their calculations, air temp, weather, sea state. Punch it all into the computer.

From my own experience with field artillery, it is an incredibly complex calculation, the factors such as differing wind strengths at different altitudes, and even the rotation of the earth to take into account at longer ranges.
Lasers are used to calculate the barrel droop as the barrel heats up.
That is why first round hits are very rare. It is often far more effective to get a round on the ground and adjust it from there.

 

[capnsensible]

I really enjoyed my time in general service as a young rating. Being in a twin gun turret during a shoot at a towed aerial target was the highlight of my trade as an ordnance artificer.
But then I discovered that there are two kinds of ships. Submarines and targets.

 

[Stemar]

What I always find interesting is the immense difference between a bombers flight deck with multiple switches and dials and winking lights to a massive ships bridge with a pair of binoculars. KISS.

One reason is that the ship has lots of the switches and dials down in the engine room. Likewise navigation stuff in the chartroom, and so on. Only really one room on a bomber

 

[BurnitBlue]

From my own experience with field artillery, it is an incredibly complex calculation, the factors such as differing wind strengths at different altitudes, and even the rotation of the earth to take into account at longer ranges.
Lasers are used to calculate the barrel droop as the barrel heats up.
That is why first round hits are very rare. It is often far more effective to get a round on the ground and adjust it from there.

Wow. And wow again. That calculation to add in the earths rotation has to be different and super complicated depending on the compass direction of the gun and how long the shell is airborne. Didn't realise how much really affects accuracy. Kind of explains the art involved before computers were invented.

By the way forgot to thank the poster for the animated diagram of a gun being loaded. Explains all. Thanks.

 

[BurnitBlue]

I really enjoyed my time in general service as a young rating. Being in a twin gun turret during a shoot at a towed aerial target was the highlight of my trade as an ordnance artificer.
But then I discovered that there are two kinds of ships. Submarines and targets.

Being ex RAF I can imagine the pilots anguish when selected to fly the tow plane.
"Why me?"
"Because it's your turn"
"Oh. How often does that turn come round?"
"Mmmmm. Just once".

 

[Whitlock]

Being ex RAF I can imagine the pilots anguish when selected to fly the tow plane.
"Why me?"
"Because it's your turn"
"Oh. How often does that turn come round?"
"Mmmmm. Just once".

My father told me that a plane towing a target for gunnery practice during WWII, because the ship's AA was getting too close, sent a signal, "Note, we are towing the target not pushing it".

 

[john_morris_uk]

Being ex RAF I can imagine the pilots anguish when selected to fly the tow plane.
"Why me?"
"Because it's your turn"
"Oh. How often does that turn come round?"
"Mmmmm. Just once".

I’ve been on lots of ships where the automatic close in weapons systems were exercised. (Eg Phalanx). The target gets towed over head or nearby a few times and then the weapons systems (with restricted arcs enabled) are made live once the aircraft is overhead and the target still approaching towed behind the plane. The system immediately shoots it to pieces, shoots any debris still coming towards you and then starts shooting the wire up towards the plane. The system is turned off both to conserve ammunition (and I imagine in case the predefined arcs don’t kick in.) It’s very controlled but impressive to watch and all over very quickly.

 

[capnsensible]

I’ve been on lots of ships where the automatic close in weapons systems were exercised. (Eg Phalanx). The target gets towed over head or nearby a few times and then the weapons systems (with restricted arcs enabled) are made live once the aircraft is overhead and the target still approaching towed behind the plane. The system immediately shoots it to pieces, shoots any debris still coming towards you and then starts shooting the wire up towards the plane. The system is turned off both to conserve ammunition (and I imagine in case the predefined arcs don’t kick in.) It’s very controlled but impressive to watch and all over very quickly.

The hand loaded 4.5 could do about 20 rounds per minute but slacked off a bit as the turret crew got knackered so not in the league of auto weapons. Impressive though.
I was on a destroyer off the great barrier reef when we shot at some aussie pilots. We were in company with the frigate hms Plymouth. In their turret was a classmate of mine. After our run we nipped out onto the focsle to watch their turn. The bullets exploded in the vicinity of the target....target triggered burst if I remember correctly. As you describe after busting the target the gun control radar tracked up the tow wire. Check check check and a rather upset dink.
What's never mentioned is the post firing maintenance required plus using the sprog artificer to clean and repaint everything......

 

[DownWest]

On my father's day, flying fighters, they stayed well away from the Navy. Distinctly trigger happy when aircraft were concerned, he was shot at several times in the Med by our own lot.

 

[Blue Sunray]

I'd recommend this book for a flavour of how things worked in the last days of all gun ship engagement. Obviously not a documentary and some items missed out (eg radar) due to the fact it was a wartime book, but an excellent read (or listen).

The Ship: Amazon.co.uk: Forester, C.S.: 9780241955482: Books

182. The Ship – We Have Ways of Making You Talk – Podcast

 

[Poignard]

On my father's day, flying fighters, they stayed well away from the Navy. Distinctly trigger happy when aircraft were concerned, he was shot at several times in the Med by our own lot.

And vice versa. Swordfish from HMS Ark Royal mistook HMS Sheffield for the Bismarck and launched 11 torpedos at her!

 

[AntarcticPilot]

I'd recommend this book for a flavour of how things worked in the last days of all gun ship engagement. Obviously not a documentary and some items missed out (eg radar) due to the fact it was a wartime book, but an excellent read (or listen).

The Ship: Amazon.co.uk: Forester, C.S.: 9780241955482: Books

182. The Ship – We Have Ways of Making You Talk – Podcast

As you say, not a documentary - but based on a real action, the Second Battle of Sirte (I think). Written in wartime, so obviously did not mention technologies that were then classified.

The "Firing Table" had been around since WW1, and was a mechanical analogue computer; by WW2 it was quite sophisticated. Of course, digital computers have taken on that task with even greater precision.

The accuracy of naval gunnery is amazing. One of my former colleagues was on South Georgia during the Falklands war, and related the tale that the main factor in persuading the Argentinian garrison to surrender was a demonstration of naval gunnery where they placed four shells on a hillside in a precise square. The Argentinian force recognized that if they resisted, the navy could destroy them without them being able to return fire at all.

 

[Blue Sunray]

As you say, not a documentary - but based on a real action, the Second Battle of Sirte (I think). Written in wartime, so obviously did not mention technologies that were then classified.

The "Firing Table" had been around since WW1, and was a mechanical analogue computer; by WW2 it was quite sophisticated. Of course, digital computers have taken on that task with even greater precision.

The accuracy of naval gunnery is amazing. One of my former colleagues was on South Georgia during the Falklands war, and related the tale that the main factor in persuading the Argentinian garrison to surrender was a demonstration of naval gunnery where they placed four shells on a hillside in a precise square. The Argentinian force recognized that if they resisted, the navy could destroy them without them being able to return fire at all.

A couple of friends were there with the small Army contingent, a very effective and economical action. One of the many side effects of Corporate as a whole was the recognition/reminder of the need to retain ships' guns for NGS.

 

[emandvee44]

Here is a clip of a USS Missouri 16" gun firing from the movie "under siege". Perhaps one of the 'experts' on here can tell us how accurate it is (well the second round was) Looks to be a pretty sophisticated.

M.

 

[emandvee44]

And here is the real thing!

M.

 

[JumbleDuck]

What's never mentioned is the post firing maintenance required plus using the sprog artificer to clean and repaint everything......

From my Wonder Book of The Navy (1920s, I think):

I believe this was usually a job for the smallest cadet - even by the malnourished standard of those days, 16" across the shoulders would have been pretty puny. I wonder if they had a tool or brush for cleaning the rifling or if they just acted like a large test-tube brush.