Nav Lights and collision regs

Please don't take these comments personally! They have been brewing for a while and I am in a bad mood!

But

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Have just purchased Sadler 32

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Why does nobody buy anything these days!


Also, questions like this, and the question such as 'can I run my water heater from the battery on my Benny 40 something' and 'where can I buy a 12V hair dryer' and 'how do I heave-to in my 38' AWB', make me think back to my start in boating. I scrimped and saved to buy a 24' boat. By the time I actually had my hands on it, I had read everything I could about sailing, I had agonized about power systems, and anchors, and rig types and.... I read Reeds every evening, I had sailed other people's boats at every chance I could get. I knew more about colregs the day before I got my 1st boat than I do now - at least in theory. And those around me seemed to be in the same situation.

Things seem very different today.

So, on both counts, am I now officially a grumpy old fart ? And am I entitled to a burgee to show my new status ?
 
"Seriously - no qualifications, aren't we regulated enough already? It's the last great freesom and that is swiftly becoming eroded, please don't suggest hastening the process."

Hmmmm, well what makes you think that I was suggesting there should be? I was just curious as to what Malaprop was suggesting when he said "maybe that would be no bad thing" or words of that nature.

If some people feel that they want or need to chase bits of paper that's fine by me. Indeed a paper qualification is as I am sure you know necessary for certain types of sailing. I also think that given the trend these days to think of 35/40 foot boats as starter boats (ho-ho), getting a bit of experience before setting off onto the briny is probably very wise for those that can afford such craft. As for making making qualifications a mandatory requirement for all, I am dead set against it. I agree with you, sailing is one of the last real freedoms we have, being able to slip my mooring and toddle off where I want to, and to come back when I want to, without asking some buggers permission is to me almost the very breath of life! So E-borders?....Stuff them!

Anyway, to the OP, have a look here

http://www.theblundells.co.uk/html/sailing_vessels.html

You will get all the information you require, please do ignore all those that have posted silly opinions in this thread. Some people do not seem to be up to speed at all where navigation lights are concerned. (Worrying isn't it)?
 
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Have just purchased Sadler 32 which is fitted with deck level nav lights as well as tri colour top of mast with allround white anchor. Mast head not fitted but spotlight is.
I am confused re what lights to show when under motor. Any advice welcome.

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When you say deck level nav lights I am presuming these are just the red and green, (port and starboard), lights at the bow, and that you do not have a white light at deck level on the stern.

According to the rules for vessels less than 12m, you can show your deck level red and green, and your anchor light, (all round white). If you have a stern light, this needs to be off if you are using the all round white, (anchor light).

If you want to get more professional, you would fit a masthead light, (half way up the mast usually /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif ), and a stern light, and use red, green, stern, and masthead.



When sailing use the tricolour, (easier for me to see you than the deck lights). I would only use my deck lights, (red, green, stern), as a backup if the tricolour had a problem.

Hope that makes sense.

Might be worth doing some kind of course which includes a basic level of the Rules - you will be glad of it when you get into a situation where a collision is possible.

Cheers

Richard
 
Fit a steaming light (and stern light if you do not have one) - then you will be fully compliant. Show low level (height not power) nav lights (port, starboard and stern) and steaming light when using you engine. Tricolour when under sail. Don't mess around with combinations that don't comply with Colregs as a mis-understanding could have serious consequences. Also if you haven't got a radar reflector - fit one!
 
When motoring he will be complying with the regulations, (for his length), if he shows red and green at the bow, and the anchor light, (all round white), at the masthead.

No need to spend any money if it's not necessary, apart from having a backup.

How would you/we know that the all round white wasnt a masthead and stern light? If you see red or green, it's a masthead, if you see just white, it's a sternlight.
 
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Suggest keep it simple is the way
Basic is best
Turn every light on


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Despite the howls of anguish from the purists, I think this good, sound advice. As Anne Davison wrote in "My Ship Is So Small" (an excellent read), "I would rather that the crew of another ship said 'what the hell is that?' than missed me and ran me down."

Yachts are small and vulnerable. Unless the Other Guys see us, all the correct lights in the world are a waste of time. In particular this means recognizing that deck level lights on a yacht are utterly, totally pointless. If it's not at the masthead you might as well switch it off and save the weight and electricity.

The flipside of showing all you've got, of course, is that you can't then expect the Other Guy to know what you're doing, so you have to keep out of their way. But then, that's what any sensible yachtsman does at night anyway.

Me? Tricolour masthead for steaming, all-round white masthead for motoring. Easy. And legit.
 
"For raggies P & S on the shrouds if possible to increase visibility over a distance"

About half an inch if sailing with a genoa up and unable to use the tricolour, or tricolour not fitted /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

or are you suggesting lights at the bow and on the shrouds? No!
 
I have sympathy with the idea of switching everything on. However, is it right to show ambiguous lights that others could interpret as a vessel under sail or a fishing boat and so create unclarity over who is the stand-on vessel? I think not. One possible exception is in areas such as Spithead and the E Solent, with loads of low-level shore lights, where motoring under tricolour + steaming light could help others to pick you out.
 
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.......Yachts are small and vulnerable. Unless the Other Guys see us, all the correct lights in the world are a waste of time. In particular this means recognizing that deck level lights on a yacht are utterly, totally pointless. If it's not at the masthead you might as well switch it off and save the weight and electricity............
Me? Tricolour masthead for steaming, all-round white masthead for motoring. Easy. And legit.

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Well first of all as an ex Bridge watchkeeper I can honestly say - "balderdash". I and many others didn't like tricolours - we actually prefered lower level lights. Tri's were often confused with shore lights or waving about with mast movement to make it difficult.
Deck lights had less movement - were distinguishable separately.

Finally I think you had re-word your use of lights ... Tri for steaming, masthead for motoring. I assume that was an honest error ? Surely you mean sailing not steaming ?

As to lights to make sure you're seen - there is nothing more better than a good flashlight shone on the sails if you are concerned that that ship hasn't seen you. You may not understand this - but the guy on the bridge will get 2 things from it ... a) you are a yacht with sails, and most likely b) the light will show from one end of the boat up into the sails giving him an instant idea of direction of boat ...

Don't believe me ? Try it out with another boat and you'll see ...

Tricolours ... sorry IMHO should be banned. They are a false sense of security completely unfounded.
 
I'll join in the howls of protest here.....

How on earth do you expect a watch keeper to know what action to take if you are showing the wrong lights?

Secondly, on your other main point, and to support Nigel's observations above, it is widely and pretty much unanimously recommended by watchkeepers who have spent time on bridges, that deck level light are better than mastheads when at sea.....

If you genuinely believe that sticking 'everything on' is a good idea, then i'd seriously question how much time you've spent at sea at night.
 
I tick all the same boxes as you and agree 100 percent with your remarks about the deck level lights and the white light on the sail. The best idea by far.
 
Stupid reply.
Get out of the classroom and realise how the real world works.
Fool.
If the poster asked the question then he obviously didn't know the regs.
Better to be seen than sunk
 
Great you make a Sadler 32 into a VLCC My point was education and be seen.
Stupid reply.
Get out of the classroom and realise how the real world works.
Fool.
If the poster asked the question then he obviously didn't know the regs.
Better to be seen than sunk.
Read and think before you insult
 
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If the poster asked the question then he obviously didn't know the regs.

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Quite the contrary, I think he does know the regs enough to know that there is question to be asked - he has bought a boat that doesnt have the lights he expects to have to use, but guesses that the configuration it has will be useable.

I was a Merchant Navy Deck Officer, and am now a Yachtmaster, but had to look things up to be able to comment. I dont carry every single rule in my head, just those that I need most of the time.

It's an unusual situation, and worth checking for advice and reassurance.
 
How on earth do you expect a watch keeper to know what action to take if you are showing the wrong lights?
FFS
RED is port
Green is Something
White with those is steaming
AND THEY ARE CLOSING ON YOU
DO SOMETHING suggest go right

Whereas single white:
stern or anchor.
AVOID
THe OP was asking for help re lights was trying to help him in his early days
 
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How on earth do you expect a watch keeper to know what action to take if you are showing the wrong lights?


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Well, they won't take any action if they don't see you at all, will they? Being seen is the first priority - showing the right lights is nice, but down the list. However, this is why "switch everything on" has its merits - "completely impossible" is better than "simply misleading" ...

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Secondly, on your other main point, and to support Nigel's observations above, it is widely and pretty much unanimously recommended by watchkeepers who have spent time on bridges, that deck level light are better than mastheads when at sea.....


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If they can see them. I don't know where my previous reply has gone, but just how visible do you think a leeward deck light is on a yacht: twelve inches above water level, pointed down at thirty degrees and hiding behind the genoa?
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If you genuinely believe that sticking 'everything on' is a good idea, then i'd seriously question how much time you've spent at sea at night.

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Hmm. I have feeling that some of the anguished are terribly proud of showing the right lights as they motor slowly around the marina.
 
Re: Nav Lights and Collision Regs

To make a practical suggestion:
I spent some years on a old racer fitted with glass eyes in the coachroof under which were spotlights pointing up to illuminate the sails - brilliant! Nowadays I have a couple of white flares always close to hand.

The low level v masthead debate certainly mustn't descend to the illegality of switching everything on; it can't if you install DPDT 3-way switches to control the circuitry so that it's either one or the other, never both.
 
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How on earth do you expect a watch keeper to know what action to take if you are showing the wrong lights?

Whereas single white:
stern or anchor.
AVOID


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Agree in principle, but white can also be on a small vessel with low power under power and under way, (cant remember the length or speed, but probably less than 7m and not capable of more than 7 knots. e.g. a 20ft sailing vessel.

Lots of little fishing boats in 3rd world countries use all round white - having said that, they tend to scatter when they see a big ship coming /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
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