Nautical Terminology

[Serin]

Nobody has argued to the contrary. The only real passion seems to come from those who strongly object to the use of non-technical language when talking to non-technical people. a[/I]

Perhaps you could point to any posts in which this passion is in evidence?

 

[Serin]

When dealing with non-sailors on my boat, I usually limit myself to teaching them a few important words that actually matter. The Boom is one example, because they need to know to keep clear of it, and I may need to refer to it with some urgency (though this hasn't happened yet).

I agree. Having worked professionally teaching people to sail in dinghies, keelboats and big yachts I how always been interested in the communication issues. That's also the reason I really to try and avoid any yelling - it's counterproductive to yell at people who aren't used to or don't expect to be yelled at. It makes people angry and confused and is a real barrier.

I still sail with novices most of the time. If they are occasional visitors (or one regular visitor who loves being on the boat but has no interest in how it all works) then its essentials only. But when I was teaching formally and now that I teach informally or just sail with my regular crews I rarely come across anyone who is not keen to learn about the boat, sailing etc. and that includes the names of things.

As you say, for the non specialised things it's neither here nor there, although many people do take pleasure in learning for its own sake (as I do) but for the essentials and technicalities, they soon pick up the names, just as someone with an interest in car mechanics will soon learn the names of the engine parts, as suggested in a post above. When my regular "mate" picks up a mooring I really wouldn't like to have to say "put the loop round the T shaped metal thingy at the side by the bow" every time rather than "just bung it on the horn cleat, please".

 

[JumbleDuck]

There may be other aspects of the dynamics of internet communication that you aren't taking into account ...

Of course. There are people who just don't write well and there are those who seek to continue peculiar grudges from other threads,

There is no mention in the OP of the need to address beginners, and there has been a group who seem to support the idea of a simplified vocabulary at sea generally. When dealing with non-sailors on my boat, I usually limit myself to teaching them a few important words that actually matter.

Again, I agree completely, and the key is "teaching them the words".

 

[pmagowan]

There is no mention in the OP of the need to address beginners, and there has been a group who seem to support the idea of a simplified vocabulary at sea generally. When dealing with non-sailors on my boat, I usually limit myself to teaching them a few important words that actually matter. The Boom is one example, because they need to know to keep clear of it, and I may need to refer to it with some urgency (though this hasn't happened yet). With all other terms, and usually with little time, anything goes. A competent skipper is not going to put him or herself in a position where urgent or confusing instructions need to be given to a non-sailor when the boat or its crew' safety are at risk, surely.

I think this is key. The problem is, that when an urgent situation develops it is unlikely that you would remember to use an alternative terminology to your usual ones so it is good for the crew to understand what you mean. Also the correct terminology tends to be more precise and therefore prevents mistakes. When we did a competent crew course (I was doing day skipper for boat hiring reasons) for the inexperienced crew the first thing was to discuss all the names for things and the safety features. This can be done at the same time as you need to do a good walk-through. The crew were then quized and this continued throughout the week. It is important to explain exactly why things have their names and any little hints you have to help them remember them.

So simple things like sheets are the ropes that control the sails which look like bed sheets. Halyards are the ropes that pull sails up because you are hauling the yard up (everyone knows yardarm for drinking reasons). Then explaining which ones are dangerous and when. I find the most important thing is to tell them to take their time to work out what the 'rope' is doing and what you want to happen. For safety you need to know what it is doing as you don't want to take a loaded rope off a winch etc and put the load through you. Like everything it takes practice so with an inexperienced crew you should be using the correct terminology as much as possible and make a game of it. That way when you should at them to release the main sheet NOW, it might happen!

 

[Simondjuk]

So who's going to compile the New De-Nauticalised Nautical Dictionary, and could they please start by advising the non-pretentious replacements for the following, which I use frequently?

Aft.
Ahead.
Aloft.
Alongside.
Amidships.
Astern.
Back.
Backstay.
Backwind.
Barber hauler.
Batten.
Beam.
Bear,
Beat.
Belay.
Bend.
Berth.
Bight.
Bilge.
Binnacle.
Bitter end.
Block.
Bobstay.
Bollard.
Boltrope.
Boom.
Bow.
Bow line.
Bowline.
Bowsprit.
Bowsprit shrouds.
Breast line.
Broach.
Broad.
Bulkhead.
Bullseye.
Bullwarks.
Bumpkin.
Bunt.
By the lee.
Cam cleat.
Car.
Cardinal.
Chainplate.
Clevis pin.
Clew.
Close hauled.
Clove hitch.
Cockpit.
Coffee grinder.
Companionway.
Cringle.
Cunningham.

Actually, I hadn't realised there were so many, so let's go with A to C for now and deal with the rest later.

 

[Poignard]

When people begin sailing they are keen to learn and to do things properly ( why would they be doing it if they weren't?). So why not begin by using the proper terms?

 

[prv]

Backstay.

Actually we used to call this one the "adjustable rear guyrope", originally coined by a friend on his first trip on a charter yacht many years ago

Pete

 

[dom]

So who's going to compile the New De-Nauticalised Nautical Dictionary, and could they please start by advising the non-pretentious replacements for the following, which I use frequently?

Aft.
Ahead.
Aloft.
Alongside.
Amidships.
Astern.
Back.
Backstay.
Backwind.
Barber hauler.
Batten.
Beam.
Bear,
Beat.
Belay.
Bend.
Berth.
Bight.
Bilge.
Binnacle.
Bitter end.
Block.
Bobstay.
Bollard.
Boltrope.
Boom.
Bow.
Bow line.
Bowline.
Bowsprit.
Bowsprit shrouds.
Breast line.
Broach.
Broad.
Bulkhead.
Bullseye.
Bullwarks.
Bumpkin.
Bunt.
By the lee.
Cam cleat.
Car.
Cardinal.
Chainplate.
Clevis pin.
Clew.
Close hauled.
Clove hitch.
Cockpit.
Coffee grinder.
Companionway.
Cringle.
Cunningham.

Actually, I hadn't realised there were so many, so let's go with A to C for now and deal with the rest later.

This list is a testament to long, blowy, cold winter evenings

 

[trapezeartist]

There is no mention in the OP of the need to address beginners, and there has been a group who seem to support the idea of a simplified vocabulary at sea generally. When dealing with non-sailors on my boat, I usually limit myself to teaching them a few important words that actually matter. The Boom is one example, because they need to know to keep clear of it, and I may need to refer to it with some urgency (though this hasn't happened yet). With all other terms, and usually with little time, anything goes. A competent skipper is not going to put him or herself in a position where urgent or confusing instructions need to be given to a non-sailor when the boat or its crew' safety are at risk, surely.

I feel like the guy who starts a fight, then sits in the corner and watches everyone slug it out. You're right, I didn't mention beginners. My main issue (and I wasn't taking a position myself, but simply seeking opinion) was nautical words that are superfluous because they don't bring any extra precision to the situation. Someone mentioned the cabin sole, and I think that's quite a good example. In everyday English a floor is the bottom of a room and a sole is the bottom of a shoe. Now which of those does a cabin sole most resemble? And how does cabin sole provide more precision than cabin floor?

There can be no doubt that the vast majority of words in use on a boat are needed because there are no substitutes. Just like the piston in an engine, there can be no other word for a rudder. And we're hardly likely to keep calling a halyard "the rope that pulls the sail up", simply for reasons of economy.

By the way, a brilliant international sailing coach taught me that a jib has four corners on it. They are called the head, the tack, the clew and........ wait for it....... the fourth corner! Unless any of our crusty old salts on here can tell me that I'm just a land lubber and I should really be calling it a throstletwistle.

 

[Simondjuk]

Someone mentioned the cabin sole, and I think that's quite a good example. In everyday English a floor is the bottom of a room and a sole is the bottom of a shoe. Now which of those does a cabin sole most resemble? And how does cabin sole provide more precision than cabin floor?

Problem is, there may be floors under the floor, so it get's tad confusing if you just try and reinvent the odd thing.

Try my list above and see how you go?

 

[prv]

Someone mentioned the cabin sole, and I think that's quite a good example. In everyday English a floor is the bottom of a room and a sole is the bottom of a shoe. Now which of those does a cabin sole most resemble? And how does cabin sole provide more precision than cabin floor?

Because sadly the word "floor" is already taken, and if you say "floor" in the vague context of the lower part of the inside of the hull, people are going to have to figure out which you meant.

(If you've just dropped a plate of food on it, it's probably clear which you meant. But there are discussions about strengthening or rebuilding where it's not at all obvious.)

Pete

 

[trapezeartist]

I scanned down your list Simon and I would say all or nearly all of them cannot be substituted. "Coffee grinder" is a bit of a problem though as that is definitely ambiguous. Perhaps one of the other contributors can come up with a new word for it.

 

[Simondjuk]

I scanned down your list Simon and I would say all or nearly all of them cannot be substituted. "Coffee grinder" is a bit of a problem though as that is definitely ambiguous. Perhaps one of the other contributors can come up with a new word for it.

Well, given that the list is the A to C section of the A to Z of nautical terms which I use daily and not one needs changing, I don't see much merit in trying to replace any of the remainder.

On the coffer grinder, to my knowledge, I've only ever been on one boat with one for grinding coffee beans and many with them for grinding winches. To date, not one person on a vessel in the latter category has dashed below... sorry, downstairs... and started rifling the galle... erm, kitchen... when the term has been used. I'd tend to conclude therefore that it passes the ambiguity check. Besides, the word 'pedestal' rather reeks of pretentious pomposity, so best avoid I'd say.

 

[adwuk]

a brilliant international sailing coach taught me that a jib has four corners on it.

That'll be the same bloke that makes use of other highly technical nautical terms, like "elephant's ar$e" and "georgeousness", each with very sailing specific meaning. A diamond geezer.

 

[JumbleDuck]

So who's going to compile the New De-Nauticalised Nautical Dictionary, and could they please start by advising the non-pretentious replacements for the following, which I use frequently?

Aft.
Ahead.
Aloft.
Alongside.
Amidships.
Astern.
Back.
Backstay.
Backwind.
Barber hauler.
Batten.
Beam.
Bear,
Beat.
Belay.
Bend.
Berth.
Bight.
Bilge.
Binnacle.
Bitter end.
Block.
Bobstay.
Bollard.
Boltrope.
Boom.
Bow.
Bow line.
Bowline.
Bowsprit.
Bowsprit shrouds.
Breast line.
Broach.
Broad.
Bulkhead.
Bullseye.
Bullwarks.
Bumpkin.
Bunt.
By the lee.
Cam cleat.
Car.
Cardinal.
Chainplate.
Clevis pin.
Clew.
Close hauled.
Clove hitch.
Cockpit.
Coffee grinder.
Companionway.
Cringle.
Cunningham.

Actually, I hadn't realised there were so many, so let's go with A to C for now and deal with the rest later.

When people begin sailing they are keen to learn and to do things properly ( why would they be doing it if they weren't?). So why not begin by using the proper terms?

Because, as Simondjuk has helpfully pointed out, there are just so many of them, and unless you want to put someone off sailing for life there is no need to overwhelm them. So yes, by all means talk about battens, clews and companionways in due course, but don't feel bad about calling them "those wooden sticks at the back of the sail", "the corner of the sail by the mast" or "the doorway into the cabin" if that works better. And if you need someone new to make an urgent change of course, ask yourself whether "hard a-starboard" or "turn hard right" is more likely to have the desired effect ...

 

[Serin]

Of course. There are people who just don't write well and there are those who seek to continue peculiar grudges from other threads,

Well, Jumbleduck, you are always a bonny fechter, but I did wonder what was driving your particularly dogged tilting in this thread. I had my suspicions, but I didn't expect you to confirm it yourself!

 

[adwuk]

What beats me is why you would put someone, who didn't understand the terms port and starboard, on the helm when there was even the remote chance of them needing to take immediate action.

 

[Robert Wilson]

What is the purpose of nautical jargon? Is it to -

Make certain a command is understood?



Anyone who uses terminology that confuses the listener is a bad seaman and could endanger boats or lives.

If I have novice crew aboard I use the nautical term then back it up with "plain English". If I have regular sailing-types I use the nautical term, but make sure they have understood and acknowledged the command/advice etc.
As I do most of my sailing solo, giving commands in any "jargon" to myself seems a bit pointless - but I still do it!!

 

[Serin]

What beats me is why you would put someone, who didn't understand the terms port and starboard, on the helm when there was even the remote chance of them needing to take immediate action.

Beats me too. But so does the notion that calling things by their names is pretentious, pompous etc. in the sailing world, but not in any other specialised sphere of activity. It is a very different environment from the one on land and so there are a lot of things, actions and situations that are not usually encountered on land. They can be described in non nautical language, but those descriptions are usually clumsy, circuitous and imprecise. Not really fit for purpose.

 

[Robert Wilson]

"You might think that you know what you might have heard me say, but I'm not sure that what I think I meant to say is what you actually heard."

"PULL THAT RED ROPE - NOW"