Nautical Terminology

[PaulJS]

Many years ago when I was starting my studies in marine engineering, we were learning the correct sailory words. One of the cadets, expressing the wish that plain english should be acceptable proposed starting the......
Campaign to
Undermine
Nautical
Terminology

But there were problems with the acronym

 

[JumbleDuck]

On my own boat, we do generally try to use the correct terms for things - as you say, it makes for clearer communication.

I think it all depends on who is talking to whom. With my usual crew on the tiller I'll say "Bring her round to starboard a bit, please" but with someone who has not sailed before I'll say "Bring her round to the right a bit, please". And I confess that I always call the triangular flappy thing at the front the"jib", even though it's a genoa ...

 

[Serin]

They were generally invented, like all jargon terms, as a quick way of communicating information between experienced people in a field. Things don't stop working, or go wrong, if you need to take a little more time to describe them.

I would suggest that most nautical terms came into being for the same reason as any other words in any language. Words describe distinctive things and categories of things. They don't become "jargon" just because the things they describe are peculiar to a specific setting or unfamiliar to people who are generally unfamiliar with that setting.

I call a spade a spade because that is what, in the English language, it is called. I call an oscilloscope an oscilloscope because that is what it is called. And I call my starboard main cap shroud the starboard main cap shroud because that is what it is called.

 

[capnsensible]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...I-just-held-joystick.html?ico=ushome^mostread

Thanks, Janet.

 

[JumbleDuck]

I would suggest that most nautical terms came into being for the same reason as any other words in any language. Words describe distinctive things and categories of things.

I agree, but you can usually describe the thing in another way, so terseness is the point of the new word. This is actually a very English approach. When they need a new word in German they tend to string existing words together into one while in French they tend to use a phrase.

They don't become "jargon" just because the things they describe are peculiar to a specific setting or unfamiliar to people who are generally unfamiliar with that setting.

I think that's precisely what jargon is - a subset of words used principally within a specialist field and less familiar to people outside that field. It's a shame that the word often has a derogatory meaning, because jargon is useful, clear and unambiguous in context.

I call a spade a spade because that is what, in the English language, it is called. I call an oscilloscope an oscilloscope because that is what it is called. And I call my starboard main cap shroud the starboard main cap shroud because that is what it is called.

That is all absolutely fine, but if you were talking to someone less experienced you may find it works better to say "Look at the screen with the green wiggly line on it" or "Hang on to the wire which comes down from the top of the big mast on the right hand side".

Somewhere I have a book called "Peat Spades of the Isle of Man". Many different types were and are used, for cutting, lifting, turning, stacking and so on, so you'd rsik looking very ignorant if you just called it a spade. It might even be a shovel ...

 

[snowleopard]

What is the purpose of nautical jargon? Is it to -

Make certain a command is understood?

Make others appreciate the superiority of the speaker?

Or simply for the pleasure of carrying on a historical tradition?

I feel some of the posters on here fall into the second category.

A lot depends on who you are talking to and what terms they are likely to understand. For example I often sail with disabled clients who have no nautical background at all. To say 'let go port, take in starboard' would be a waste of time so I say 'let go red, take in green' (our sheets are colour coded - and rove the right way round).

If someone wants to sneer at me for saying 'It's hanging in the shower room' or 'Haul in on the green', let them, they won't impress me at all, quite the reverse. I have no time for snobs.

There is also the problem of changing terminology. I know little of 'code zero' or 'screecher' and there are many experienced sailors who wouldn't have a clue what 'step on the flemish horse' or 'start the lee brace' mean.

Anyone who uses terminology that confuses the listener is a bad seaman and could endanger boats or lives.

 

[Serin]

I agree, but you can usually describe the thing in another way, so terseness is the point of the new word. This is actually a very English approach. When they need a new word in German they tend to string existing words together into one while in French they tend to use a phrase.

I'm not sure they are really so very different in approach

http://www.dragonfly-trimarans.org/efg.htm

I think that's precisely what jargon is - a subset of words used principally within a specialist field and less familiar to people outside that field. It's a shame that the word often has a derogatory meaning, because jargon is useful, clear and unambiguous in context.

There we can agree

As far as oscilloscopes and peat spades are concerned - if someone is going to be using them, rather than just, say, visiting the lab or the peat museum, then I think it's probably better if they learn the names of the tools of their trade, rather than continuing with nursery language.

 

[Serin]

Anyone who uses terminology that confuses the listener is a bad seaman and could endanger boats or lives.

And if anyone is advocating that on this thread, I must have missed it. Straw man.

I have no time for people who attribute to strangers about whom they know nothing attitudes and motivations about which they know nothing. It's a practice that says more about the person making the attribution than the ones about whom it is made.

 

[adwuk]

Anyone who uses terminology that confuses the listener is a bad seaman and could endanger boats or lives.

Agree 100%, and I think in the end this is what it all boils down to. It works both ways though - "move to the left" is potentially just as confusing as "ease the guy", depending on who you are talking to. So for me, part of teaching someone to sail is also teaching them the names of things so that communication is improved.

 

[prv]

And I confess that I always call the triangular flappy thing at the front the"jib", even though it's a genoa ...

But a "Genoa jib" is a type of jib...

(Some people might insist that it's actually a staysail, I suppose.)

Pete

 

[Capt Popeye]

But a "Genoa jib" is a type of jib...

(Some people might insist that it's actually a staysail, I suppose.)

Pete

Ah, well then, when is a 'foresail' , a 'jib', or a 'head sail' or a 'genoa' then ? is it size, position, rig dependent class dependent or even RYA school dependent?

 

[JumbleDuck]

I'm not sure they are really so very different in approach

http://www.dragonfly-trimarans.org/efg.htm

The very first line there perfectly illustrates my point!

English: abaft (one word)
German: heckwärts (two words strung together)
French: sur l'arrière de (words used in a phrase)​

As far as oscilloscopes and peat spades are concerned - if someone is going to be using them, rather than just, say, visiting the lab or the peat museum, then I think it's probably better if they learn the names of the tools of their trade, rather than continuing with nursery language.

I think "nursery language" is a bit unnecessarily insulting there. It is not infantilising people to explain subjects new to them in a language they can understand.

 

[dom]

Somewhere I have a book called "Peat Spades of the Isle of Man". Many different types were and are used, for cutting, lifting, turning, stacking and so on, so you'd rsik looking very ignorant if you just called it a spade. It might even be a shovel ...

I think that's what bothers Serin; "looking very ignorant", that is? Most of us would of course openly admit that we knew little about peak cutting, whilst simultaneously expressing an interest in the activity. And as with sailing, I'll take a bet that the activity is far more interesting than pedantic discussions about spade nomenclature.

 

[Serin]

I think that's what bothers Serin; "looking very ignorant", that is? .

Eh? Well, I'm glad you're able to tell me what bothers me. Otherwise I would never have known!

 

[Serin]

The very first line there perfectly illustrates my point!

Not exactly. If you look at notices in all three languages, the French version is almost always longer than the English and German and the English is usually the shortest. Both German and English build words from combinations of others, although German does so more often. However, the components of these words are, themselves, technical words. Where the Germans might build a word, we very often simply build a phrase. This list might also be useful for whoever it was that helpfully pointed out that English nautical terminology is not a universal language understood by non English speakers. Yes, sir, other languages do have their own nautical terminology.[/quote]

I think "nursery language" is a bit unnecessarily insulting there. It is not infantilising people to explain subjects new to them in a language they can understand.

Your description of the oscilloscope is much as I might describe it to a group of primary school children but I would be a bit surprised if I, as an adult, was invited to view one in the terms you use. It isn't infantilising to explain things in terms people can understand, but there is this thing called "age appropriate" language to reckon with

 

[dom]

Eh? Well, I'm glad you're able to tell me what bothers me. Otherwise I would never have known!

Always happy to be of assistance! ...but I wouldn't worry too much. In a month or so the days will start to lengthen and arguments about collregs, nautical lingo and not to forget the dreaded sleeping bags, will gradually give to a more uplifting spirit on the forum

 

[Serin]

Always happy to be of assistance! ...but I wouldn't worry too much. In a month or so the days will start to lengthen and arguments about collregs, nautical lingo and not to forget the dreaded sleeping bags, will gradually give to a more uplifting spirit on the forum

Don't bank on it. I've been around these forums, on and off since the early 1990s and I have learned one thing - some hardy perennials bloom all the year round, year after year after year after year after y............

PS - You and Snowleopard could make a fortune from your apparent ability to read the minds of strangers - just imagine the shows you could put on! You don't have to get it right, of course, because people go to such shows in a gullible frame of mind, just eager to be fleeced! Go and put down on a deposit on your dream boat this minute

 

[doris]

Nonsense. I've seen a documentary about one.

Very good Shirley

 

[Neil]

The daftest nautical term in my view, is using the word 'heads' for the toilet. Every English speaker knows what a toilet is. There is no possibility of any confusion with respect to the word 'toilet' either on a boat or off it. And why plural?, unless you have more than one toilet on your boat, but I've heard the plural used to describe a single toilet.

The word comes from the original placement of the toilets at the head of the boat, of which there can only be one (head) anyway.

The other is 'Leo' - why not pronounce it 'lee-ho', if you're going to use it at all? even then it sounds a bit daft. I use 'prepare to come about' followed by 'coming about', which is actually less useful than the afore-mentioned 'prepare to tack' and then 'tacking now'

 

[adwuk]

For the avoidance of doubt, some explanations