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[flaming]

I also do similar and I like the idea of phone photos but I'm not at adequate ?

On long passages I set a timer every 30 mins for lat long , speed over the ground , heading and log , it isn't always easy bouncing @ 22 knots .

I'm not sure a phone photo would be much use if all electrics are lost , my prime concern has always been lightning strike knocking out the nav gear but wouldn't an iphone suffer similar ?

I keep a VHF and hand held plotter in the oven (as a Faraday cage) but I'm not confident that the engines would still run after a lightning strike but at least you still have sail , perhaps keep your phone in the oven between photos ?

Oven? Sounds heavy....

 

[DAKA]

Oven? Sounds heavy....

You could always try putting your phone in a biscuit tin ( as a Faraday cage ) but it isn't as good as an oven , high risk of making you feel hungry every time you use your phone with increased danger of lighting the oven and melting everyone else's phone who diligently protected them in the oven


I thought all yachts had ovens , is yours dedicated to racing ?

We have a fitted gas oven , Microwave , Air Fryer , BBQ / smoker thing ,and we still eat out every night (plenty of Faraday cages though)

 

[flaming]

I thought all yachts had ovens , is yours dedicated to racing ?

Very much so.

Biscuit tin wouldn't pass the weight police either. Last weekend my fuel tank was almost entirely empty, it took a whopping 25 litres to fill it. After a week of cruising the Solent an annoyingly large amount of it is left. Over 3/4. Don't like having more than 1/3 of a tank, too heavy.

 

[xyachtdave]

If you really were short of time you wouldn't go sailing.....

Why is understanding tides 'poncing about'?

How do you know where you are going without some kind of navigation?

Lots of folk like to understand the environment around them.

1) Use your available time wisely…

2) I understand tides and could do those crocodile graph secondary port calculations (at a push under duress) if I really had to but I just don’t enjoy it.

3) Our boat is very light on electronics, we plan on paper charts, compass headings, use waypoints on a basic handheld GPS and if I need a reassuring friend to tell me I’m where I thought I was I ask my wife.

4) There’s not much environment to understand at the chart table, extrapolating tidal heights!

We’re all different of course and best of luck to anyone that wants to cosy up with a Reeds Almanac and a pencil at the weekends!

 

[Stemar]

I don't think I've done a secondary port calculation since my Day Skipper course. Most of the time, my tide calculations are limited to knowing when HW & LW are, so I know which way to turn coming out of Portsmouth Harbour, and staying out of the green bits on the chart any time below about half tide, though I have been known to push my luck on a rising tide.

 

[capnsensible]

1) Use your available time wisely…

2) I understand tides and could do those crocodile graph secondary port calculations (at a push under duress) if I really had to but I just don’t enjoy it.

3) Our boat is very light on electronics, we plan on paper charts, compass headings, use waypoints on a basic handheld GPS and if I need a reassuring friend to tell me I’m where I thought I was I ask my wife.

4) There’s not much environment to understand at the chart table, extrapolating tidal heights!

We’re all different of course and best of luck to anyone that wants to cosy up with a Reeds Almanac and a pencil at the weekends!

I've been lucky to have sailed and motored on dozens of different boats with all sorts of navigational aids on board. But I'm very grateful to have been taught traditional techniques right at the beginning of my sailing. Not everything works all the time.

I've also coached many candidates for sailing certificates of competence. From that I believe that those who understand all aspects of tidal heights, rates and direction are indeed better sailors. Sitting at a chart table extrapolating tidal heights is simply a minor part of that but is indeed a useful skill. More to the point is that lots of aspiring sailors can't do that simple task without getting seasick.

I wonder if that is the reason people kick back so much about chart table navigation?

 

[xyachtdave]

I've been lucky to have sailed and motored on dozens of different boats with all sorts of navigational aids on board. But I'm very grateful to have been taught traditional techniques right at the beginning of my sailing. Not everything works all the time.

I've also coached many candidates for sailing certificates of competence. From that I believe that those who understand all aspects of tidal heights, rates and direction are indeed better sailors. Sitting at a chart table extrapolating tidal heights is simply a minor part of that but is indeed a useful skill. More to the point is that lots of aspiring sailors can't do that simple task without getting seasick.

I wonder if that is the reason people kick back so much about chart table navigation?

They say there’s a sea state for everyone, so I’d guess you’re 100% correct on seasickness being the reason for the lack of enthusiasm for attendance at the chart table.

Personally I do everything I can in advance to minimise this, charts in order, passage plan and notes, food prep and a flask of coffee.

When I’ve not done this I’ve regretted it, recently a 04.00 departure meant breakfast underway, banging upwind in a load of chop at 08.00 trying to make bacon sandwiches nearly did me in!

 

[SaltyC]

I don't think I've done a secondary port calculation since my Day Skipper course. Most of the time, my tide calculations are limited to knowing when HW & LW are, so I know which way to turn coming out of Portsmouth Harbour, and staying out of the green bits on the chart any time below about half tide, though I have been known to push my luck on a rising tide.

Lucky you! In my local sailing ground they are ALL secondary ports and tidal access, great for learning and being competent.

Even the luddite has now succumbed to Absolute tides, however, I still have the understanding, appreciation and ability if need be.

 

[LittleSister]

. . .
Sitting at a chart table extrapolating tidal heights is simply a minor part of that but is indeed a useful skill. . .

Oooh! Chart table? There's posh!

I used to do the 'on passage' nav in the cockpit with the chart in a holder on my knees, using a fly swat as a ruler, and sliding it by eye from the compass rose, and measurements either also by eye or, when more critical, by fingernail along the fly swat handle against the markings on the side of the chart. Seemed to work!

Later encounters chart plotters, first on a friend's boat and eventually my own, precipitated a slide into laziness and insouciance. First duplicating everything on the paper chart, then recording the GPS position hourly, then when I remember.

But I am so glad i learnt doing it all long-hand, as it were, which helps me understand what is going on and which are the crucial 'sensitivities', and even allowing for all I've forgotten (one tends to remember the principles, even if not the details), I reckon I could easily get back safely to a harbour if all the electronic wizardry failed by using the compass(es), out of date charts and almanacs, and the old lead-line out of the bottom of the locker, and (at least in home waters and the English Channel etc.) probably even without any of those.

 

[Stemar]

Even the luddite has now succumbed to Absolute tides, however, I still have the understanding, appreciation and ability if need be.

That's the one I use most of the time, too.

An interesting readout from it last night, a few minutes before HW, which was predicted to be 3.7m, the figure in red at the top, which I had always assumed to be a calculation, said the current height was 4.0m, which looked to be about right.

 

[Mark-1]

That's the one I use most of the time, too.

An interesting readout from it last night, a few minutes before HW, which was predicted to be 3.7m, the figure in red at the top, which I had always assumed to be a calculation, said the current height was 4.0m, which looked to be about right.

Which raises a really interesting point that very often (perhaps most often) tide height calcs are to work out if I can do something *now*. It's not about predicting the future it's about working out the present. And, for those of us who live near sources of real time tide data, interpolation of predictions is nowhere near as good as physically looking at (say) Cambermet.

A tide gauge in the pocket.

 

[zoidberg]

I've been lucky to have sailed and motored on dozens of different boats with all sorts of navigational aids on board.....Not everything works all the time.

Sitting at a chart table extrapolating tidal heights is simply a minor part of that but is indeed a useful skill. More to the point is that lots of aspiring sailors can't do that simple task without getting seasick. I wonder if that is the reason people kick back so much about chart table navigation?

Running 'RYA Evening Classes' for over a decade, I had to keep in mind that some of my aspiring Yachtmasters were actually refugees from the Spanish Guitar class - which was oversubscribed!

As has been noted, there's more than one way....

lightho

 

[Mark-1]

lightho

Which reminds me, it's probably 35 years since I heard someone congratulate themselves on a good landfall. Just hasn't been an issue since reliable electronic nav. (I don't count Decca as reliable.)

 

[benjenbav]

Very much so.

Biscuit tin wouldn't pass the weight police either. Last weekend my fuel tank was almost entirely empty, it took a whopping 25 litres to fill it. After a week of cruising the Solent an annoyingly large amount of it is left. Over 3/4. Don't like having more than 1/3 of a tank, too heavy.

An extra 10kg is a problem on a 12m yacht? Do you weigh your crew before races in case they’ve all had a sneaky pie on the way to the boat.

 

[LittleSister]

An extra 10kg is a problem on a 12m yacht? Do you weigh your crew before races in case they’ve all had a sneaky pie on the way to the boat.

I assume they have a weigh in as all the crew come aboard, and pie consumption determines who goes on the lee rail, and who goes on the winches, wheel etc.

 

[zoidberg]

Which reminds me, it's probably 35 years since I heard someone congratulate themselves on a good landfall. Just hasn't been an issue since reliable electronic nav. (I don't count Decca as reliable.)

Back in the day when the most accurate navaid was a well-sharpened 2B pencil, my old boaty mentor, Flt Lt John Reeve, counseled me before my first offshore foray in a new 'Golden Hind' with me 'O i/c Nav', from Plymouth to(wards ) St Malo....
"HM Queen paid a lot of money to train you as a hotshot air navigator. If you can't find Europe from Devon, come back and we'll talk about it."




I can well remember the well-hidden feeling of relief when Roches Douvres appeared through the summer murk.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Back in the day when the most accurate navaid was a well-sharpened 2B pencil, my old boaty mentor, John Reeve, counseled me before my first offshore foray in a new 'Golden Hind' with me 'O i/c Nav', from Plymouth to(wards ) St Malo.... "HM Queen paid a lot of money to train you as a hotshot air navigator. If you can't find Europe from Devon, come back and we'll talk about it."

seamark

I can well remember the well-hidden feeling of relief when Roches Douvres appeared through the summer murk.

As a bit of Fred drift, half an hour ago a couple of Rafale jets exited the valley did a sharp turn and disappeared up the next at a guess at something like 600 kts and certainly within the confines of the valley had I been out walking just like years ago in the Ogwen valley I would have been able to look down into the cockpit. But it struck me the piloting and navigation must be exacting to say the least wen the airspace between hard walls must be measured in seconds.

 

[flaming]

An extra 10kg is a problem on a 12m yacht? Do you weigh your crew before races in case they’ve all had a sneaky pie on the way to the boat.

10m yacht....

And it may be psychological, but heading out to the start line knowing you have too much fuel, or too much clobber etc... It does make a difference. I like to start a race knowing that I've prepared the boat as well as I can within my budget, and things that are free - such as emptying the boat of clobber or managing fuel levels - makes a real difference to how you feel about your chances.

Weight in crew is not a big deal, as they're portable and can be put to good use. Weight in tanks is just weight.

 

[Mark-1]

10m yacht....

And it may be psychological, but heading out to the start line knowing you have too much fuel, or too much clobber etc... It does make a difference. I like to start a race knowing that I've prepared the boat as well as I can within my budget, and things that are free - such as emptying the boat of clobber or managing fuel levels - makes a real difference to how you feel about your chances.

Weight in crew is not a big deal, as they're portable and can be put to good use. Weight in tanks is just weight.

Plus, look after the pennies and the pounds will look after themselves. If you don't police 10kg then all of a sudden you end up with 20 different lots of 10kg and that's a problem.

Even in the most social of cruiser racing if someone isn't a dick about weight it gets out of hand.

 

[benjenbav]

Plus, look after the pennies and the pounds will look after themselves. If you don't police 10kg then all of a sudden you end up with 20 different lots of 10kg and that's a problem.

Even in the most social of cruiser racing if someone isn't a dick about weight it gets out of hand.

I think that’s exactly right; one thing leads to another so that if you’re careless about one item, pretty soon you find you’re setting off with the lazarette full of unnecessary stuff.