Nanni 2.14 Starting

[JumbleDuck]

My one-year-old 2.14 is being a bit of a bugger to start. It turns over, fine, but not very fast, but needs 15+ seconds cranking on its own battery or 5+ on the house one as well. I've checked all connections, and I've replaced the rather old engine battery. Still the same.

Should I be giving it some throttle when starting? The manual says nothing about it, just to ensure that the gearbox is in neutral

 

[PaulRainbow]

From cold, i find most engines start quicker/better with a touch of throttle, just enough for a fast idle.

Is the engine battery big enough for the job ? How about cable size ?

 

[sailorman]

I use throttle a RP says + turn the key to "heat" for 3 or 4 seconds on first start of the day, then its instant ( Nanni 4150 )

 

[JumbleDuck]

From cold, i find most engines start quicker/better with a touch of throttle, just enough for a fast idle.

Thanks - I'll give that a go. My old 1GM10 liked full throttle to start, but I have never been sure about this one.

Is the engine battery big enough for the job ? How about cable size ?

It's an 063 because that's what I had lying around when I rewired. 41Ah, 390 CCA and if it can start a 1300cc petrol engine it should cope with a titchy diesel. In fact it did, last year. One solar panel failed over the winter, leading to no maintenance charge, so I assumed that bad starting was a dud battery and replaced it, but it hasn't made much difference. 35mm² (iirc) wires both ways, about 2m long.

I use throttle a RP says + turn the key to "heat" for 3 or 4 seconds on first start of the day, then its instant ( Nanni 4150 )

Thanks, both. I shall now experiment ... 5 seconds preheat, throttle at fast idle, fired on the tenth rather slow compression. Hmm.

 

[sailorman]

Thanks - I'll give that a go. My old 1GM10 liked full throttle to start, but I have never been sure about this one.



It's an 063 because that's what I had lying around when I rewired. 41Ah, 390 CCA and if it can start a 1300cc petrol engine it should cope with a titchy diesel. In fact it did, last year. One solar panel failed over the winter, leading to no maintenance charge, so I assumed that bad starting was a dud battery and replaced it, but it hasn't made much difference. 35mm² (iirc) wires both ways, about 2m long.



Thanks, both. I shall now experiment ... 5 seconds preheat, throttle at fast idle, fired on the tenth rather slow compression. Hmm.

Has the engine always done this, are the battery wires heavy enough ????

 

[macd]

JD: that's Kubota-based, I think. Beta, all of whose engines are Kubotas, seem invariably to recommend 1/3 throttle.

15 seconds for a one year, modern engine (rather than an old Merc or BMC) sounds ridiculous. Our Beta fires up instantly, thottle or no throttle, without using the glow plugs. But it's in a cold place compared to yours: Greece

From your description the starter's spinning slower than it used to, yet a new(?) battery hasn't helped. I'd start by checking all the high-Amp connections in that circuit. Something fundamental, if not necessary grave, is amiss.

 

[earlybird]

Both Kubota based Beta's that I've owned started well on about 1/3rd throttle. After pre-heat for 5-10 secs. starting would be virtually instant.

 

[Pye_End]

Beta suggest 350 to 405 CCA, though personally I went with rather more welly - the spec is fine for a new fully charged battery but I wanted it to still start the engine well when older and a bit depleted. I can't immediately find a spec from Nanni for CCA, but no doubt it is similar.

Beta says 10s for pre-heat. the Nanni manual says 5s to 15s.

Petrol engines are much easier to start than diesels.

Nanni manual suggests for a difficult to start engine, possibly:
1. Lack of fuel
2. Air in fuel system
3. Fuel filter fouled or clogged
4. Fuel do not meet specified standard
5. Water/contaminants in fuel
6. Valve clearance is wrong *

8. Insufficient battery charge / Defective battery
9. Faulty electrical cables contact

 

[JumbleDuck]

I am an idiot. The new battery was nowhere near fully charged. Now that it is, the engine turns over briskly and starts easily. Many thanks for all the advice - I'll use 1/3 throttle from now on.

 

[LittleSister]

Kubota based Beta's that I've owned started well on about 1/3rd throttle. After pre-heat for 5-10 secs. [only required from cold] starting would be virtually instant.

+1

Only time starting wasn't almost instant was when the battery was low (e.g. during winter, no charger, left for a few weeks, or months on one occasion, between starts).


p.s. somehow hadn't seen previous two posts when writing. :roll eyes: I'll catch up eventually!

 

[PaulRainbow]

+1

Only time starting wasn't almost instant was when the battery was low (e.g. during winter, no charger, left for a few weeks, or months on one occasion, between starts).

What, like if you bought a new one and it wasn't fully charged

 

[JumbleDuck]

What, like if you bought a new one and it wasn't fully charged

At least it was the right voltage!

Quits?

By the way, I know the 063 is rather marginal for the Nanni. I fitted it because (a) it was lying around and (b) my battery compartment under a saloon seat, is annoyingly restricted in height, and I can only fit in 175mm high batteries. That also restricts my house bank to 2 x 60Ah ... anything bigger (and of a suitable footprint) is 190mm high or more and I just can't fit it in. At some point I may go to a Red Flash, but (c) ouch and (d) they don't sell 'em off the shelf in Oban!

 

[LittleSister]

I may go to a Red Flash, but (c) ouch and (d) they don't sell 'em off the shelf in Oban!

My previous boat had a tiddly little Red Flash battery for engine starting (Beta 14). It was expensive, but was giving good service years after the pain of the purchase had worn off. It wasn't in stock locally for me, either, but arrived by post in a day or two.

The reason for the coughing up for the Red Flash was the previous owner had fitted a bloody great big (for a 23 footer) domestic battery, and that didn't leave room for a normal engine battery in the relevant locker.

There wasn't height in the locker for a conventional domestic battery of that capacity, either, so he'd bought an AGM that could live on its side. Maybe that could be a potential solution (again at a price!) for you.

 

[PaulRainbow]

At least it was the right voltage!

Quits?

Touche

Was only having a little joke with you :encouragement:

By the way, I know the 063 is rather marginal for the Nanni.

On paper it's borderline, but i wouldn't worry about it. It's starting the engine and it's cheap enough to throw away every few years.

 

[JumbleDuck]

There wasn't height in the locker for a conventional domestic battery of that capacity, either, so he'd bought an AGM that could live on its side. Maybe that could be a potential solution (again at a price!) for you.

I can fit quite a big Red Flash into the space I have the 063 in. That may be a job for the winter ...

 

[JumbleDuck]

Touche

Was only having a little joke with you :encouragement:

I earned it!

On paper it's borderline, but i wouldn't worry about it. It's starting the engine and it's cheap enough to throw away every few years.

That's more-or-less my feeling. Easy to find as well, since 063s seem to have started all small cars from the 80s on in much the same way that 038s did everything before that.

 

[LittleSister]

I can fit quite a big Red Flash into the space I have the 063 in. That may be a job for the winter ...

I think I may not have made myself clear.

1) My boat's engine battery was a dinky little Red Flash - I think the 1000 or 1100. My engine was the same base one as yours and it was perfectly adequate. I'd buy the same again.

2) The boat's domestic battery was a thudding great (for the size of boat, anyway, especially weight-wise) Lifeline AGM. That lived on its side, there not being enough height to accommodate it upright. I wondered whether an AGM (or two) on its side might allow you to make better use of your height limited space, and (at a cost) provide the domestic capacity you aspire to.

 

[JumbleDuck]

I think I may not have made myself clear.

Probably my misapprehension.

1) My boat's engine battery was a dinky little Red Flash - I think the 1000 or 1100. My engine was the same base one as yours and it was perfectly adequate. I'd buy the same again.

And I wasn't clear. By "quite a big Red Flash" I meant one big enough to start the engine, a 900 being insufficiently oomphy.

2) The boat's domestic battery was a thudding great (for the size of boat, anyway, especially weight-wise) Lifeline AGM. That lived on its side, there not being enough height to accommodate it upright. I wondered whether an AGM (or two) on its side might allow you to make better use of your height limited space, and (at a cost) provide the domestic capacity you aspire to.

That is an interesting idea. Unfortunately I also have to content with a moulded battery tray which restricts width and (total) length too, but angle grinders exist for a reason and the idea of mounting a battery sideways is a good one which I shall certainly consider next time I replace them. Thank you very much.