My new project... MFV Elizmor

[jellyellie]

OK, I think I have found the details for Ainscough's Marketing Director, so I have sent her an email. Fingers crossed!

 

[burgundyben]

All these extraordinary high tides we've had, never a flood when you need one!

 

[JumbleDuck]

All these extraordinary high tides we've had, never a flood when you need one!

If only Maughold Head would slide off into the Irish Sea the resultant tsunami might just do the job.

 

[npf1]

If you need an anchor for the trip south, I can lend you a 100LB Danforth.

 

[fisherman]

I've seen Ainscough's 1,000 tonne capacity mobile crane in action. It's very impressive, though perhaps a little overkill for this job.

Overkill would be one solution, longer reach, the crane could be further from the quay edge, would have more choices of places to sit. The cost might outweigh liability and extra insurance problems.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Overkill would be one solution, longer reach, the crane could be further from the quay edge, would have more choices of places to sit. The cost might outweigh liability and extra insurance problems.

True. The 1,000t one is huge, though, and requires lots of ground preparation and a counterweight of up to 200t. Surely whatever got Elizmor out can get her in again?

 

[Corribee Boy]

I suspect you've thought of this, but is there anyone else nearby, needing a lift in or out, who'd share the cost of the crane?

 

[fisherman]

True. The 1,000t one is huge, though, and requires lots of ground preparation and a counterweight of up to 200t. Surely whatever got Elizmor out can get her in again?

A local boatbuilder in the 80s had the biggest (then) mobile crane possible to do a launch, it took two other cranes to assemble it.

 

[cryan]

It sounds to me like what is required is a nighttime lift by the original crane you hired then in the morning when the marina staff return just tell them faeries did it and let them flap away about HSE etc. they will probably issue you with a strong worded letter but once the boats in who cares.

 

[EuanMcKenzie]

we do lots of lifts in the refinery on quite poor ground

our civil engineers have figures they use for ground pressure and you use spreader plates or sleepers and plates to spread the point load from the outriggers over the ground. Essentially an engineer should be able to take a conservative view on what the ground can bear but ultimately there is always a risk as you can't dig up the harbour to find out what is there. You need a fully insured contract lift like you had planned originally and if there is any doubt about ground conditions, the crane company should be able to bring in an engineer to give them an assessment and design the lift the minimise the risk.

It is unlikely they will have unlimited insurance but they should have "contractors all risks insurance" for £5M minimum and that would normally be satisfactory for working in a boatyard.

Is the yard concerned that they could break the quay or something?

I cannot believe a reputable crane company cannot do this for you?

It would be worth getting a copy of the certificates and insurances from the original company and talking to yard about it. These guys are so used to conversations like this they usually have them in a file ready for the discussion. If they don't then you may actually be cheaper going upmarket to one of the big boys for a turnkey contract lift as they will certainly be able to do you a package.

Is there something odd about the ground on the proposed location? sometime you need to accept a slightly bigger crane to position it further away from the lift point on more sound footings.

rule of thumb cranes cost approx £100/ day per 10 ton lift capability so £2k for your 200 tonner + riggers etc = £3k sounds about right BTW.

Going to a 300 tonner would cost circa £1k more but may get you in the water (leaving the crane on the quay)

Ultimately you can't run a boat yard and not let people keep boats in it and lift them into the water so there has to be a way forward here.

Hope this may be of some help.

 

[rhumlady]

It's one way of ensuring ongoing fees for keeping the boat on the hard..

 

[jellyellie]

Thanks for everyone's comments again.

There aren't any problems with the proposed launch itself - a 200t crane will be fine - just paperwork issues about liability and excess insurance.

Will keep you updated.

 

[Boo2]

Thanks for everyone's comments again.

There aren't any problems with the proposed launch itself - a 200t crane will be fine - just paperwork issues about liability and excess insurance.

Will keep you updated.

I'm sure this is a dumb question, JE, but is it impossible for you to arrange insurance yourself, completely seperately from the contractor ?

Boo2

 

[jellyellie]

I tried insuring myself the first time round in order to take responsibility and indemnify the marina, but it was a dead end, because as a layperson I am obviously not able to advise on suitability of the ground etc.

 

[jellyellie]

And as part of paying ~£4000 for a contract lift, I would expect the crane company to cover all insurances and liability.

 

[NormanS]

Does the boatyard have a slipway? When I was in a similar situation, with an even bigger boat, due to circumstances, I had to launch her myself. This involved side slipping for about 40m, and then lifting onto a launching trolley. It was all done with jacks, wedges, blocks, some lengths of rail, and some small pairs of bogey wheels.

 

[Blueboatman]

Norman you are a chap after my own heart, technnology-wise..Get er up onto skids, drag it with a tractor to the towing eye on the keel front, on greasy boards across the yard and let the tide float it off the slip..fivers worth of diesel, couple of days and some girt clever hands on...

A quick Googlepeak suggests the boatyard is on the tidal side but i couldnt see a proper slipway...

I wonder if the 'problem' is that the boatyard is not a boatyard per se, but the offshoot of a canal waterways BigOrganisation?

 

[jellyellie]

Nope, no slipway! Just the quay wall which she is standing on.

 

[Blueboatman]

Shame the lift cant be covered by someone else's ONE day insurance indemnity eh? two lifts, one day, one set of 'to whom it may concern' papers.......

 

[Boo2]

I tried insuring myself the first time round in order to take responsibility and indemnify the marina, but it was a dead end, because as a layperson I am obviously not able to advise on suitability of the ground etc.

And as part of paying ~£4000 for a contract lift, I would expect the crane company to cover all insurances and liability.

Yes, understood. I suppose the killer is the fact the insurance co. will still need a ground survey, I just thought it might be a way of breaking the log jam but obviously not...

Hope something turns up for you...

Boo2