My first motor boat

Looks good, is that the Penta D4 engine?

If I can get a 30ft with a single powerful diesel ~2005 then that is certainly my preferred option against the 350 MAG, I would like the "option" of venturing further afield should I want too without having to pay the earth to do so on fuel.

Whats the cruise and WOT speeds for your setup?
 
That's a yanama stzp-4. It cruises at about 20-22knots, gets on the plane at about 19 and I have had 28.3 sog from her with just 2 of us on. when we moved it from Poole to Gosport (about 60NM) it was so good on fuel at 20 knts. I have yet to work the average burn out yet, one of my next little tasks to do, so intend to fill it up and then have the normal drive around and work out how many ltrs per hour it burns, its says about 40 PH (according to manual) on 3200 rev (which would be about 22 knts depending on sea conditions As I said it came in at under 30K and IMO excellent value for the money. If you insist on a petrol there are petrol ones out there, You often hear about its" 5-10k more to buy and that a lot fuel" yes it is, but I will get most of that extra money back when and if I come to sell, once your petrol has been burned up in water miles, there is no getting it back, hence why I went for diesel in the end
 
Yes, that makes sense.

So are they quoting 40LPH @ WOT as 3200 seems high?

Are you having to use WOT for a cursing speed of ~20?

IE you really only have one speed which is ~20 opposed a V8 or a twin diesel which will cruise at ~22 and max out at ~32ish?
 
Have not got the information with me so not too sure on the burn per hour V revs, but I think it was at 3000 rev for 40ph.

No I have a full range of speeds and cruise at 20-22 knots. which is more than fast enough. Mind you have I missed something, are you after a boat for speed speed? as mine would not be ideal for you then. Why go for twin engine? twice the maintenance and nearly twice the fuel cost, have often do you need 2 engines, (although much easier the berth with 2 engines)
 
Welcome to the forum Aidan...

With a young family, you will find that it won't be that often you will be able of cruising comfortably offshore above the 20 knot range .... and that speed on water will cost you serious ££ ... and bigger boat at speed cost a lot more...

you may also find that with a young family, that comfort and space is most important ... when combined with the ability to handle adverse weather in a positive way will build confidence and increase the enjoyment of your boat for the whole family ... It is a buyers market out there and loads of deals can be negotiated .... As a sample, and a curve ball to you, have a look at this one as a sample of deals that can be had ... A Norwegian built boat to high spec., reduced from mid £70K down to mid £40K .... good living space, separate cabins, secure cockpit for the young ones and nice side decks to walk along when you are mooring ...

This one is sold, but is an indication of what you can expect ...

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/199...Burnham-on-Crouch/United-Kingdom#.VYwZrk3bLcs
 
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Honestly not having had a chance to get on board for a run yet its hard to say, got a hopeful trip on a Targa 33 in the pipeline.

Although that's well out of my price range im more looking at performance / engine configuration / sizes / experience etc

I like the idea of cursing at ~22 and then having a faster WOT for "having a blast around" purely for the fun of it, however whether this is a "requirement" is yet to be confirmed.
Much of my experience has been on fast paced ski boats up to this point.

My ideal (at my current budget) would be a single high power diesel, ~300hp+ to get the economy and the "fun" speed element in one unit without having the issue & cost of twin engine / leg setups.
 
If you want 300HP and a diesel you aren't going to get it with a single I'm afraid..... BUT don't forget that twin diesels will weigh MUCH more than a single engine.


However if you're set on twins if it's a diesel - then take a look at this, found this evening....

http://www.theyachtmarket.com/boats_for_sale/1169907/?searchid=10274719&page=4

9.2m (so 30ft thereabouts) - Twin diesel, two cabins (well one under helm).

Can't speak for headroom however.
 
Thanks Divemaster1 :

Honestly a 20kt cursing speed is more than fine its just the option of being able to have a "little play around" at a higher speed for a bit of fun for 15 mins or so.
Im not looking for a top speed of 40kts here, just something around the 30`s for "play time".

Like you said I do want to make sure I have a bit of space on board so I don't expect to find something much (if at all) under 30ft that will suit.

The one you linked is less sports cruiser and more floating retirement home, im knocking on the door of 30 so do want something a little on the sportier side.

Thanks OTP :

Volvo do a D4 at 300hp, although most of the single engine diesels ive seen tend to be the 260hp model as in lionelz`s configuration.
If i can find a 30ft at the time with the 300 D4 that would be lovely but im sure the 260 would do the job sufficiently.
If finances allow twin diesels would be the preference, im figuring running 2 at lower RPM to achieve the same cruise rate shouldn't be too much of a hit on the fuel side but in all honestly I think it will be a single diesel.
 
aidanuk said:
................Like you said I do want to make sure I have a bit of space on board so I don't expect to find something much (if at all) under 30ft that will suit.
..................im knocking on the door of 30 so do want something a little on the sportier side.
............If i can find a 30ft at the time with the 300 D4 that would be lovely but im sure the 260 would do the job sufficiently.

.........figuring running 2 at lower RPM to achieve the same cruise rate shouldn't be too much of a hit on the fuel side but in all honestly I think it will be a single diesel.
Click to expand...

Think you may find fulfilling all your requirements within your budget a bit of a challenge....

So, sporty = Narrow hull, low headroom, which conflicts with space requirements ... and even more so in your price bracket... Even the likes of the older Sunseekers 37 & 41 Tomahawk only really have one cabin, and if you look at that era of boats, for speed you had twin & triple Volvo's at about 200 hp each .... During this era, the production sterndrives was not strong enough to take the torque from the larger diesel engines.

A bit more of a compromise was made with the likes of Bayliner and their Avanti range ... more beam, space etc., but they were delivered with V8 petrols (Magnums) to get the combination of space and pace ... but often the grace were lacking .... I delivered a Bayliner 32.. Avanti from Stavanger to Oslo back then and she really moved ... topped out around 40 knot, and had plenty of space onboard ... but I would not want the fuel bill.

Moving into the 90's the relatively lightweight GMC V8 diesel (250 - 300 hp) came in to play and a fair bit of these V8 petrols were replaced with this engine as aftermarket fits.... but some of the marinising kits fitted to this engine left a lot to be desired .... and the Volvo diesels of that era was straight six's (230 and 260 hp) and would not fit into the engine bay where a V8 was fitted before.

These 200 - 260 Hp straight sixes were fitted to a large range of boats which did have more accommodation... Fairline, Fjord, Sealine, etc., etc .... but to get to that illusive 30 knot mark, you really needed two engines if your boat was over 28 foot .... most UK manufacturers went for twin engine setup and only a few Scandinavian yards was offering up single installations.... and the boats did loose a fair bit of the sporty look & feel you are looking for... but some of them represents a good compromise...

The Volvo D series diesel engines, with the higher ratings when coupled to sterndrives have been on the market for less than 10 years (I think), and the boats with these engines that offer the space and pace you are looking for quickly falls outside your price bracket....

.... and remember ..... it is the HP that you take out of the engine (the propeller which moves the boat loads the engine) to achieve a certain speed that determines your fuel consumption, not how many HP you have available.... and speed on the water cost ££££...
 
I think I am using the wrong word when I say "sporty", let me correct that to "dosnt look too old", some of these older boats you look at and instantly (well I do) think christ that looks a bit old / naff.

However take the Sealine 310 I went on which was 199X, dosnt look anywhere near its age consider its ~22 years old and would be more than acceptable for me.
Boats of this age all be it around the 35-40k mark tend to have the twin 170 KAD`s which I believe will satisfy my frugal cruising while having a bit of power to take it up to ~30+ for a bit of fun.

The single engines would be the likes of the Regal 2655 / Rinker FV 270 etc which fits the bill in the "up to" 30k category but sacrificing a bit of top end performance.

As you say twin engines will have to push the budget to 35-36k if I want to go down that road.

I still need to get out on some trips on various types / configs to narrow down what I really want to aim for.
Maybe ill be more than happy with a single diesel 260 in which case hurar, or maybe ill consider it underpowered and set my mind on twins in which case ill just have to wait a bit longer to up the budget a bit, I would rather and wait and do it right than have to change up too soon.
 
Interestingly both MBY and a Norwegian boat mag did a like for like comparison with identical boats one diesel the other petrol, it included initial purchase price ,running costs, servicing and depreciation/resale value over 5 yrs and both independently came to the same conclusion, if you do less than 100 hrs a year then petrol was the way to go, over 100 hrs a diesel made more sense financially. obviously some people prefer diesel or petrol outright.
I have been a Volvo Penta and Mercruiser engineer for over 30 yrs and for the boating I do I wouldn't have anything but a V8 Mercruiser, I have had several. If I was into long trips staying away for a week or more then a diesel would have more appeal from the running costs.
Petrols are not inherently more dangerous as many scaremongers would have you believe, in fact a trawl of insurance statistics shows there far more fuel related fires on diesel boats, which I can well believe having been in hundreds of engine rooms and seen more than a few diesel engines with fuel leaks that have been ignored, diesel burns just as well as petrol once it gets going. Fuel leaks on petrol engine boats tend to get noticed and fixed straight away. As someone pointed out, they wouldn't be able to give them away in the US if they were so dangerous.
Diesels aren't a lot more economical, the litres per hour are similar to a petrol just that the pump price is lower. Servicing costs are similar in oil and filters and drive servicing, plugs only need replacing every three years or so, a diesel will most likely have a turbo so that can be expensive if it needs overhaul/replacement, a diesel will probably cost more to maintain in the long run but they are reliable as a rule. Having two diesels WILL be more expensive than one V8 all things considered.
DIY on a petrol engine is pretty straight forward if you have serviced a car, there are only oil and fuel filters, impellor, and plugs occasionally, all ignition is electronic now so no points or timing to adjust and if you get an injection engine then there is absolutely nothing to adjust.
The drive is more complicated, it would pay you to get some one who knows what they are doing to take you through an engine and drive service as there are few things to be aware of but once learnt its not beyond the average DIY 'er.
As I started read your post I immediately thought of a Bayliner 285 and smiled to see you mentioned it later on, its got a very good saloon layout for a family, and believe me its important that the wife feels happy with the cooking and more importantly the bathroom facilities, if she's not happy you will struggle to get her enthusiastic about trips, then you will have a boat that only you enjoy, so get her to have a good look around before you buy. The are several boats in that price class but not many that give so much space for the money. I had the next model down 2655 for yrs and did lots of boating here in the Norwegian fjords.
The secret I found is you either do short day trips for £50-100 in fuel, or you fill up and go far enough away that it doesn't make sense to come home the same day, so then you overnight and get two days onboard for the same amount of fuel burn. I used to go out to a group of islands and then just cruise around a idle speed from one mooring to another for 3-4 days staying in a new location each night then cruise home, that way I got a great trip for just one fuel bill.
Hope you find your dream boat and welcome to the forum.

aidanuk said:
Thanks Ian.

It would be a rare trip once or twice in the time I would own it if it was petrol.

Even if I push the budget to 35k I dont seem to be able to find a diesel made year 2000+ for that sort of money at the size I want ~30ft.

Also can anyone comment on the diesel fuel savings and maintenance offsets against petrol?

Does it work out "a little bit more" running twin diesels over a single v8 petrol or a lot more?

Amusing you do any DIY maintenance possible.

I can also see factoring in the argument it would skip an upgrade step and all its associated costs.
Click to expand...
 
Thanks spannerman, interesting stuff.

I assume the comparisons done were from new?

Do the majority of the marinas / stations in the solent provide Petrol?
With their smaller range this was a consideration if obtaining petrol was going to be an issue as im not lugging jerry cans back and forth!
I want to go across to France at some point too so wanted to make sure obtaining the fuel wasnt going to be a problem.

I do like the sound of the petrol V8`s & in terms of longevity & resilience we recently took a boat out of storage which was there for 14 years, after a few hours of fiddling, a replaced ex manifold and carb it was purring away nicely, its a 1975, 245hp model I believe.

Keeping around the £100< on average for a fuel budget per weekend was what I was aiming for and the whole "safety" thing I agree with you.

The "idle cursing" was mentioned to me by a chap I know who used to have an Sq 52 which sounded like a good idea coupled with auto pilot.
Yes at times I want to have a bit of a blast around at speed but most of the time just lolling around taking it easy is the aim of the game.

Come purchase time ill see whats about that fits the bill.
 
Whilst I agree with Spannerman in the main, I think with a 300 or 350hp Magnum you'd struggle to keep below £100 for a weekend - I think £100 - £150 per day would be more realistic with a boat the size you are looking at.

I had a Rinker 260V with a 5.7 Carb in it and a Bravo 2 outdrive - out to the bay, blast around and back to marina was £60 - £80 back in year 2000 (fuel a lot cheaper then). But doing a decent run I could easily burn £200 in fuel....

I used to work on 14gph at cruise - 20gph having a right blast.

I think you need to think about what you'll do with the boat.

And yes, with petrol, unless your marina stocks it, you will become VERY familiar with jerrycans unless you trail the boat.
 
Yes the comparison was on two new boats, any engine will last if looked after, my Mercruiser Magnum 350 was installed in 1997 in a classic 1987 Draco, fortunately it is fresh water cooled both block and manifolds, and has the rare stainless risers so there are no components to replace on the exhaust system. It runs like a sewing machine and I believe in preventative maintenance as I don't like surprises and I want my boat to be turn key ready so if I suddenly fancy a trip she's ready to go. She is totally restored to better than new and is very high tech without looking blinged up, I have an autopilot and we often just potter around at 1200rpm so the hull begins to track straight with the AP on and admire the hundreds of waterfront properties on the islands where we live, all very relaxing as you don't need to be mentally 1/2 a mile in front of the boat all the time as when up at cruising speed. Going fast is fun but soon wears thin when you look at the cost per hour to operate a boat which you should never do by the way as it will ruin your day! I have noticed a big trend the last few years of people going slower no doubt due to fuel costs, but it is a very relaxing way to travel as you are still out on the water for far less money, as they say half the fun is the journey itself. Also the drinks don't fall off the table and you can have a conversation with your guests.
 
OTP :

Its going to depend on how I want to use it, I expect it wont be too bad early on as I wont venture too far as ill be building up confidence, so just a few miles out to the closest beach, 10 mins WOT then bob around a bit before home.

Hopefully ill get into the swing of this idle which sounds ideal really.
I believe the MPI on the 350Mag helps with duel eco but obviously only to a point.

I wont berth anywhere which dosnt have petrol and we wont be trailering, hoping Brixham does petrol at the moment, haven't confirmed that yet but berthing is "cross that when the time comes" at the moment, certainly no jerry cans for me, except perhaps one for an emergency supply.

Spannerman :

Yeah, I agree with the maintenance, I will also get a proper job done on the leg for "training" and take lots of notes, have watched a few videos on YT on oil changes etc.
The one we had in storage wasn't even winterized, cant believe it came back to life. It was just in an old drafty barn, so not really sealed off from the elements, quite impressive.

Idle cruising is certainly something im going to look at.
 
Cruising at idle isn't really viable in the Solent, unless you are going along the Rivers such as Beaulieu, the Medina or the upper reaches of Southampton or Portsmouth harbours, as it will be too rolly and everyone will go green.

Bayliner 285 would make a great first boat, btw.
 
Thanks FlowerPower, ill take advantage as and when I can, If I cant do it that much such is life!

RE the BL 285 this is what im thinking, if not something like the Rinker 270.
 
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