My dream boat

[Javelin]

38' long, give or take.
Light displacement (7000 to 8000kg disp)
Dagger board with bulb.
Draws 3 to 3.5m with board down & 1.5m with it up.
Twin skeg or weight bearing rudders so that it could dry out on bulb and skeg/rudders.
Wide aft section giving fast off wind performance.
Sleeps 4 in comfort.

Anyone seen a similar design in their travels?

 

[sarabande]

OVNI goes a long way towards some of that spec.

http://www.alubat.com/ranges-ovni/ovni-395/?lang=en

 

[flaming]

J108 comes quite close.

Not a lifting bulb but a daggerboard though.

 

[Carl s]

Must assume as it is on this thread ,performance matters , what about a Pogo 10.50,,

 

[Javelin]

Yes the pogo nearly gets there.
Shame its a centerboard would much prefer a dagger with a lead bulb on the bottom.
Not sure the pogo can take the ground either.
Maybe I need to ask Pogo why not a dagger?

The ovni depends on form and hull ballast to give righting moment, there's very little weight in the c/board.
J108 is again on the right lines but chooses a c/board,
A dagger with a bulb would give much more righting moment.
I guess in the J they have opted for that system to avoid having an internal case.
My thinking is the beam on a modern wide hull would be easily enough to cope with a dagger case.

 

[Carl s]

the pogo centre board is weighted I believe, on the one I race on we have drying legs to keep her upright, last weekend on a race from Guernsey to tregiar,our time was around 4h 48min ,on the way back at times a boat speed of 16-17 kn, in 27kn true wind carrying full asym. we still got beat on handicap by a J97, 12min per100 rings a bell but good fun ,very stable and a huge amount of room below , you will however get canned on handicap, especially at windward leeward around can racing , a real buz though

 

[Javelin]

Yes 16-17knts sounds just what I'm after or anyway at least 12knts.
My current 3/4 tonner is really fast up wind but downwind she's a handful and only get over 10knts when surfing and that's scary with her as she bites if pushed too far.
Most of my sailing these days is off the wind as there's no local racing.
The chance of cutting the trip across to Holland down from 12/13 hours to more like 7 or 8 makes me smile.

 

[Carl s]

pogo will plane at 8 kn so easily with white sails, on occasion we have pushed her too hard when she rounds up its very relaxed ,no drama what so ever def a fast cruising boat ,we have full galley ,even electric heads,, hard on the wind is not much fun though,ha ha , but makes up for it on a reach.

 

[Javelin]

A year on and the dream continues but has changed a bit.
With the better half now buying into the project the criteria has been tweaked with a result that I can't find anything that ticks all the boxes so it looks like a new design or at least a modified design is required.

loa now up to 43' (13m)
Similar hull shape to a Pogo 12.5 or a stretched open 40.
5'11" headroom min
Hull build out of ceder strip planking and then epoxy sheathed.
Deck tbd, however it will have an enclosed cockpit. No open transom and possibly solar panels built into deck.
Layout based on short or solo handling.
Twin rudders and lifting keel which in theory could take the ground.
Accommodation primarily for two - (need a double that has access to either side)
Two computer stations (we both write and use a PC every day)
Carbon rig, similar to Pogo 12.5
Electric motor drives.
Owen Clarke has a design that might tick most of the boxes looking around for others.

 

[Saraband]

A Sadler Barracuda 45 feels like it hits most of your criteria......they are getting pretty old in some regards but I would think you could refurb one, even step a carbon mast, for significantly less than a new-build.

 

[Javelin]

Barracuda except for it not being 43' long (max length for my mooring)
Not lifting keel and wont take the ground and won't plane at 12+ knts in 12knts of wind.
Would sail much better upwind but not after that anymore.

There are a lot of older boats that might fit 75% but frankly for my last boat I want 100%

 

[Saraband]

Actually they are lifting keel, but accept your other points!��

 

[lw395]

I can't see that completely neglecting upwind performance is going to be satisfactory in the long run.
Unless you're going to sit around waiting for the wind to change, motor a lot or get a deliver boi to slog it upwind?

Water ballast?
Multihull?

 

[Javelin]

By upwind a typical example is today.
Its blowing 15knts WSW and we were going to sail to Harwich today, which is SSW of us, SWMBO prefers other activities on such days, so I'm lazing about at home and then will pop down to the boat and do some jobs.

Water ballast is a definite option as is looking at Hugo Boss style foils.
Much more interested in multi's than I used to be but there's something deep down that stops me taking it further.

The aspect I'm enjoying looking at is working on a design specifically based round two people and not trying to squeeze lots of bunks in, two heads etc and saving huge space not to mention weight by looking at electric propulsion.

 

[lw395]

I would think a combination of poor upwind performance and limited range from electric propulsion would be an awful combination.

A boat that goes upwind well with no fat on the rail just gives you much more freedom of destinations.
But you need a boat that makes you think going upwind is a game not a chore.
Some years ago, I was invited to cross the channel on an ugly cruising catamaran. It was an eye opener. Actually quite fun to sail.
I think i may be going through a similar thought process in a way. Next boat needs to be good at what I'm going to do with it, but different from what I've had before, and what I get to sail of other people's. But first I need to pin down exactly what I want from it.
Monster asymmetric is affirmative though.

 

[cueball]

Allures 45 would tick most of your boxes, twin rudder, lifting keel good internal layout for SWMBO, I was lucky to sail one for a few hours, more performance cruiser than racer though.

 

[Javelin]

She will be able to sail upwind, just not optimised for it.
Flat water no problem but steep chop would not be much fun.
Class 40's are still fast upwind even though downwind sailing is where they excel.

I was thinking of a dagger board with a bulb that fully down would draw around 3.2m giving loads of righting moment.
The downside is if you hit something so maybe a centerboard keel like the Pogo one would be better.

The electrical range is quickly being resolved.
Currently 40 to 50nm range with no recharge is available, fast recharge via the prop hydro-charging when sailing or at worst a small, lightweight genset for those occasions the wind just vanishes.
The build would be in two to three years time so I'm banking on further developments in this area.

Owen Clarke has a design that is very close, just need to add three feet and close the back of the transom so I don't fall out.

 

[lw395]

....

That looks like the helm won't be able to see where he's going and the interior will be somewhat one the dark side.
Deep keels on a hull like that only develop righting power when it's heeled. And that looks like a hull which wants to be sailed fairly flat or the keel will be at an angle to the bit of hull that's in the water? It's obviously in the style of boats that get their righting power from either movable ballast of the live form or the swing keel or water tank forms?

 

[MikeBz]

http://www.rm-yachts.com/en/rm-1270 with lift keel option? Notably fails the enclosed cockpit criteria, plywood cored not cedar strip, pivoting plate with no bulb. Not sure whether it can take the ground. To buy a plywood cored boat I would have to be wealthy enough to consider it disposable. A friend has the bilge keel version (which does have bulbs) - I haven't been on it but he reports it is very fast. I'm not convinced there's that much point in a 1.9m draft bilge keeler though - OK so you can take the ground but it's not exactly shoal draft and it would be a long jump down if you wanted to get off!

 

[michael_w]

What about Hugh Welborn's Dynamic Stability System? If I had the funds for a custom build, he'd be on the designer shortlist.