My condolences to everyone at SYH…

For a while, I lived with young children next to an army barracks. Although they had social occasions with loud music, they turned it down at 11pm sharp - and if they didn't, a polite phone call to the guardroom had extremely quick effect!
 
The problem is volume, unnecessary amplification. I believe it to be much worse now than it was in the seventies and eighties.

I share your concern. I don't like excessive volume, though I play electric bass, and often like to play music I'm actively listening to quite loud).

Excessive volume might be more prevalent these days, but it's certainly not new. My ears rang for days after seeing Van Der Graaf generator at Chelmsford early 70s, and reggae sound systems I heard early 80s would shake your guts and bones, not just your eardrums!

It's also not new historically. The adoption and development of the piano, for example, was very much influenced by, and itself influenced, the gradual move of classical music out of the drawing room and onto stages in large auditoriums. I'm sure there would have been people in the 17th and 18th centuries who bewailed its increasing prevalence, and that pianos themselves were getting progressively louder.

If only they'd had social media to put a stop to this kind of thing! 😁

p.s. And before anyone suggests a return to exclusively acoustic instruments, try sharing a house with someone who plays trombone! :D
 
I share your concern. I don't like excessive volume, though I play electric bass, and often like to play music I'm actively listening to quite loud).

Excessive volume might be more prevalent these days, but it's certainly not new. My ears rang for days after seeing Van Der Graaf generator at Chelmsford early 70s, and reggae sound systems I heard early 80s would shake your guts and bones, not just your eardrums!

It's also not new historically. The adoption and development of the piano, for example, was very much influenced by, and itself influenced, the gradual move of classical music out of the drawing room and onto stages in large auditoriums. I'm sure there would have been people in the 17th and 18th centuries who bewailed its increasing prevalence, and that pianos themselves were getting progressively louder.

If only they'd had social media to put a stop to this kind of thing! 😁

p.s. And before anyone suggests a return to exclusively acoustic instruments, try sharing a house with someone who plays trombone! :D
Interesting. I once attended an astoundingly good performance of Mussorgsky’s Great Gate of Kiev, I’d never imagined that a piano could be so loud. Stunning is an overused word these days, but it really was!
 
Interesting. I once attended an astoundingly good performance of Mussorgsky’s Great Gate of Kiev, I’d never imagined that a piano could be so loud. Stunning is an overused word these days, but it really was!

It wasn't just pianos both getting gradually louder and also replacing quieter instruments such as the harpsichord, other instruments, and the choice of which ones, were also going in the same direction, and orchestras got progressively larger (i.e noisier!) over time.

There is some movement in the other direction, though. The popularity of big domestic audio equipment seems to be over, and most people are now listening to music on earphones, tinny little smart speakers, phones' and computers' built in speakers.
 
So does nobody remember the Hornet Fleet - clubs with a Royal in their name liked to think they were loudest - or the old gaffers - they used to know how to party - and the beach parties - had to know someone on CB to find out where they were
 
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Interesting. I once attended an astoundingly good performance of Mussorgsky’s Great Gate of Kiev, I’d never imagined that a piano could be so loud. Stunning is an overused word these days, but it really was!
Classical music can be very loud, but is never painful to the ears. The loudest piece I have ever heard was Scriabin’s Poeme d’Ecstasie that our son was playing in, with I think eight trumpets and the rest to match. There is actually concern about modern instruments, especially the effect of modern trombones on players sitting in front of them and I’m not sure how it is being resolved.

There is no reason why Bouba’s opera should have been actually loud, though it should be comfortably audible. Until you have heard them in the flesh, most people have no idea how loud a trained voice can be. I recently went to a performance in Ely cathedral of one of my least favourite pieces, Verdi’s Requiem because our daughter was playing, but I was fascinated by the way the soprano could out-sing the whole orchestra and choir and three other soloists single-handedly. And not a drum kit or transistor in sight.
 
Classical music can be very loud, but is never painful to the ears. The loudest piece I have ever heard was Scriabin’s Poeme d’Ecstasie that our son was playing in, with I think eight trumpets and the rest to match. There is actually concern about modern instruments, especially the effect of modern trombones on players sitting in front of them and I’m not sure how it is being resolved.

There is no reason why Bouba’s opera should have been actually loud, though it should be comfortably audible. Until you have heard them in the flesh, most people have no idea how loud a trained voice can be. I recently went to a performance in Ely cathedral of one of my least favourite pieces, Verdi’s Requiem because our daughter was playing, but I was fascinated by the way the soprano could out-sing the whole orchestra and choir and three other soloists single-handedly. And not a drum kit or transistor in sight.
Ah, Ely Cathedral, my wife sang for several years with Ely Choral Society. The undoubted highlight of that time was Messiah performed in the cathedral in December, naturally, when the roof was off for repair. That evening redefined what “cold” meant for me.
 
There is some movement in the other direction, though. The popularity of big domestic audio equipment seems to be over, and most people are now listening to music on earphones, tinny little smart speakers, phones' and computers' built in speakers.
Our next house will have no neighbours within 500yds and a room dedicated to hifi. I intend turn it up as I so desire. No tinny speakers for me nor headphones. I intend having a complete replacement hifi suite (existing kit is thirty years old) when that opportunity arises, to hell with the cost.
 
Interesting. I once attended an astoundingly good performance of Mussorgsky’s Great Gate of Kiev, I’d never imagined that a piano could be so loud. Stunning is an overused word these days, but it really was!
A friend is a professional classical pianist, and on occasion I have helped him when he needed a page turner. When playing more demanding pieces with a great dynamic range, he is often running with sweat at the end of a piece, such is the effort required.
 
OK. I will change it to ‘savages’, assuming that a mark of civilisation is to have respect for other people’s space and privacy.
We have a lovely saying in Irish, "mol an oige agus tiocfaidh siad" which means praise the young and they will improve. The converse is true. They're young. They're trying to find themselves. Don't demonise them. Relax. Don't be such a grumpy, pompous B.
 
We have a lovely saying in Irish, "mol an oige agus tiocfaidh siad" which means praise the young and they will improve. The converse is true. They're young. They're trying to find themselves. Don't demonise them. Relax. Don't be such a grumpy, pompous B.
I think the evidence is to the contrary.......most of the old gits on this forum were once young.....is there any evidence that they have improved with time ?
 
We have a lovely saying in Irish, "mol an oige agus tiocfaidh siad" which means praise the young and they will improve. The converse is true. They're young. They're trying to find themselves. Don't demonise them. Relax. Don't be such a grumpy, pompous B.
We have a saying in England - “children should be seen but not heard”. Youth should be a time when they are being taught about social norms, which does not include keeping many hundreds of people awake half the night. They will become older at some time themselves and have to live with the consequences of life without moderation if that is the sort of world they are allowed to create.
 
The missus was a teacher, now retired. Her speciality was the special needs kids. One particularly troublesome lad kept pushing his luck and was on a final warning. He brought a kitchen knife to school and threatened her with it.

Instantly expelled from school and many hearings followed. The school was forced to take him back and the father brought him in and said "see, you can't touch my son again". She resigned the next day.

Speaking to the headmistress who was near retirement, she lamented that the future looked grim since failure was now being praised and the very first time kids are told they aren't good enough is when they fail their driving test. Until then nobody dare say "you're crap, work harder".
 
The missus was a teacher, now retired. Her speciality was the special needs kids. One particularly troublesome lad kept pushing his luck and was on a final warning. He brought a kitchen knife to school and threatened her with it.

Instantly expelled from school and many hearings followed. The school was forced to take him back and the father brought him in and said "see, you can't touch my son again". She resigned the next day.

Speaking to the headmistress who was near retirement, she lamented that the future looked grim since failure was now being praised and the very first time kids are told they aren't good enough is when they fail their driving test. Until then nobody dare say "you're crap, work harder".

I can well believe the story, good for her.

Exam outcomes in schools and universities used to broadly conform to a normal distribution curve. This means you generally have a mass of average performers and, at each end, the exceptionally good and the exceptionally poor. Many people thought this was fair and rewarded those with special talent and those who worked hard, It also placed the lazy and the not so clever. The role of the teacher was to give everybody a fair chance and present their subject with skill and enthusiasm. Poor teaching could be tracked by average outcomes.
But what if everybody worked hard and was equally clever and what we really wanted to teach was not knowledge but attitudes of mind? (lets suspend belief on how likely this is; educational theorists are not known for looking out of the window at real life) You would end up discriminating with a finer and finer graticule till the distinctions became trivial.

So was born our present system where we do presuppose that everybody can win first place, those who do badly are assumed to be the subject of some form of disability or adverse discrimination which can be eliminated, in the classroom, in the school or in society. The responsibility for failure moves away from the individual to the teacher or the institution.

Anyroad, after all that blather, the point is I agree wonkyw. We now have kids within schools who are learning the implicit rule that it is always someone else's fault, abuse, idleness and violent behavior is further tolerated because exclusion is a black mark - not against the child but against the school. Pointless filler subjects are studied at examination level to get the school points up, bored uninterested children are lumped in with those with talent making learning difficult and even impossible.

Katharine Birbalsingh is a name worth following for those with an interest.

PS. Forgot the point. The Unusual Situation is the sort of thing that may happen if you teach people that they are the centre of everyone's universe.

.
 
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