Musto - **** quality/service :(

I'm just going through the same process with 2x sets of leaky Musto 'Perfomance' suits, which we bought about 7 years ago and have only given them light use. I took them down to their factory at Laindon, and they phoned me back later to say that these 'non Gore Tex' suits have a life of only 2-3 seasons, and these two suits were actually made about 10 years ago! They said that their retailers/chandlers sometimes can hold stocks for some years before they sell them.

They've offered me 25% off new ones.
 
I got 50% off & a phone call from Nigel to check everything was ok.
we had owned our HPX suits 10 yrs but they were Fox`s older stock @ the time from their sale rail

rudolph_hart said:
I'm just going through the same process with 2x sets of leaky Musto 'Perfomance' suits, which we bought about 7 years ago and have only given them light use. I took them down to their factory at Laindon, and they phoned me back later to say that these 'non Gore Tex' suits have a life of only 2-3 seasons, and these two suits were actually made about 10 years ago! They said that their retailers/chandlers sometimes can hold stocks for some years before they sell them.

They've offered me 25% off new ones.
Click to expand...
 
These percentages are very misleading. Typically Musto sell to a retailer at 50% of RRP, so Musto selling you new gear in exchange for stuff they had originally promised would last a lifetime actually made them a profit. Nice little earner on a broken promise. As for offering you 25% off new stuff - no wonder they offered that, dodgy goods and extra profit. It's amazing what they think we'll fall for.
 
75% of Musto was sold to Phoenix Equity Partners - a venture capital company - in 2007. http://www.phoenix-equity.com/portfolio.aspx?MasterId=8

The guarantee is with Gore tex - http://www.gore-tex.co.uk/remote/Satellite/content/customer-service/faq/2 If you don't need the full MPX/HPX kit, you don't get the guarantee.

How does the GORE-TEX® membrane work?
The GORE-TEX® membrane has 9 billion pores per square inch, with each pore 20,000 times smaller than a water droplet. These tiny holes are too small for water and wind to pass through from the outside, which is how we can guarantee you'll stay dry and warm in a garment made with GORE-TEX® fabric. But these same pores are large enough for moisture vapor to pass through, so your body's perspiration is able to escape and you don't get clammy and uncomfortable.

How durable is GORE-TEX® fabric?
GORE-TEX® fabric will last for many years. It's incredibly durable, and unlike other "waterproof/breathable" fabrics that can lose waterproofness after repeated laundering, flexing, abrasion, exposure to body oils or insect spray, the waterproofness and breathability of GORE-TEX® fabric is guaranteed under any conditions you may encounter.

What does the GORE-TEX® Guaranteed To Keep You Dry® promise mean?
No liquid from the outside will get to you on the inside. Water from driving rain you're caught in, a damp bench that you happen to sit on, or wet grass that you kneel in can't penetrate GORE-TEX® fabric. To be totally waterproof, a fabric must be able to withstand water entry in all active conditions.

Why do GORE-TEX® garments need seam tape?
Seam tape is used to seal the tiny holes created by sewing when GORE-TEX® fabric is made into garments. These holes may be small, but they can cause leaks. We specially manufacture our own GORE-SEAM® Tape and regulate the seam taping process to ensure compatibility with our fabrics and ensure the durability of seam waterproofness.

Will a GORE-TEX® garment keep me warm?
Yes. GORE-TEX® fabric is windproof, so it blocks cold air and wind that can disturb your body heat and cause windchill. However, GORE-TEX® fabric itself doesn't have any special insulating qualities, so in really cold conditions, wearing extra layers underneath your outerwear will ensure that you stay warm and comfortable.

What's the life expectancy of a GORE-TEX® garment?
The GORE-TEX® membrane won't deteriorate with time, and our garments are guaranteed to be durably waterproof and breathable. Please use common sense and wear your garment for its intended use; i.e, don't wear a lightweight cycling jacket on a backcountry camping trip. If you maintain your garment properly, you can expect it to last.
Click to expand...
 
We had an identical issue with a Quba that had 18months use (out of warranty) where the lining completely parted company with the jacket after the first wash (following the instructins religiously). I emailed their ciustomer services and we then sent the jacket, postage paid by Quba. They checked it out and declared it faulty. They then gave us a new one of our choice. Very good service and retrieved an otherwise disasrous situation. Good on QUBA!!!

On the other hand I bought a hank of rope at LBS from the AllSpars bin. It is too large a diameter and I wanted to send it back (at my cost) and get a refund but this is their reply...

====================================================================================================

David Barden <david@allspars.co.uk>

24 Jan (7 days ago)

to me
Dear Mr Beddoe,

I am afraid that we are unable to offer you a refund as all of the hank bins at the boat show are the ends of reels etc which is then of no use to us, we would however be willing to offer you a 30% discount on the correct 12mm Marlow braid you need.

The costs therefore of a 41mtr length is £86.10 ex vat and carriage.

Please let us know if you would like to order this rope and we will cut it off straight away.

Kind regards

David

David Barden



Tamar Building, Queen Anne's Battery Marina, Plymouth, PL4 0LP
Tel: 01752 266 766

=================================================================================================================

To be honest I find that pretty poor since there was no sign saying "NO REFUNDS" and the rope is still unwrapped. I am still debating what to do...

cheers,

Dick
 
A bin end, is a bin end, you selected it, your prob. buy what you need & sell the bin end hank, on here


DickB said:
We had an identical issue with a Quba that had 18months use (out of warranty) where the lining completely parted company with the jacket after the first wash (following the instructins religiously). I emailed their ciustomer services and we then sent the jacket, postage paid by Quba. They checked it out and declared it faulty. They then gave us a new one of our choice. Very good service and retrieved an otherwise disasrous situation. Good on QUBA!!!

On the other hand I bought a hank of rope at LBS from the AllSpars bin. It is too large a diameter and I wanted to send it back (at my cost) and get a refund but this is their reply...

====================================================================================================

David Barden <david@allspars.co.uk>

24 Jan (7 days ago)

to me
Dear Mr Beddoe,

I am afraid that we are unable to offer you a refund as all of the hank bins at the boat show are the ends of reels etc which is then of no use to us, we would however be willing to offer you a 30% discount on the correct 12mm Marlow braid you need.

The costs therefore of a 41mtr length is £86.10 ex vat and carriage.

Please let us know if you would like to order this rope and we will cut it off straight away.

Kind regards

David

David Barden



Tamar Building, Queen Anne's Battery Marina, Plymouth, PL4 0LP
Tel: 01752 266 766

=================================================================================================================

To be honest I find that pretty poor since there was no sign saying "NO REFUNDS" and the rope is still unwrapped. I am still debating what to do...

cheers,

Dick
Click to expand...
 
DickB said:
On the other hand I bought a hank of rope at LBS from the AllSpars bin. It is too large a diameter and I wanted to send it back (at my cost) and get a refund but this is their reply......
To be honest I find that pretty poor since there was no sign saying "NO REFUNDS" and the rope is still unwrapped. I am still debating what to do...
Click to expand...

Not at all surprised by that, really. Statutory rights are to return if the item is faulty when bought, is not as described, or is not fit for purpose. Anything else is at the goodwill of the vendor.
 
Ref the Gore Tex guarantee quoted above. Like all guarantees the wording is meaningless without numbers. I have a Musto MPX jacket and trousers. These are several years old but are lightly used and look like new. There is no way they could be considered waterproof and leak like a sieve. I got soaked one night last summer and was feeling distinctly hypothermic after an hour. I see Gore recommend regularly treating with a water repellancy restorer. Presumably this would not be necessary if the textile was genuinely waterproof and allows them to decline any claims if they have not been so treated. What is the point in buying a waterproof jacket that has to be continually treated at great expense. Have things really progressed since the days of oilskins. In my opinion they are a complete waste of time for sailing. I have gone back to using my 1985 vintage neoprene proofed Musto waterproofs which still work. I was noticeably warmer and dryer with these.
 
Different strokes suit different folks. I'm never going to wear non-breathable oilies again if I can possibly help it.
 
Cardo said:
I think they treat their MPX customers a little better than their cheaper range customers. I don't think I'm a valuable enough customer!
Click to expand...

Sadly I think you may well be right.


Goretex clothing.......
The GoreTex waterproof has a 10 year guarantee from GoreTex to Musto and then to the buyer/customer if it fails.

I had my 6year old HPX GoreTex suit start to fail last year..... I sent it back and had a new replacement within a week.

S.
 
Has everyone been washing an tumble drying their goretex? Have a look at the instructions...you're supposed to. If you don't, the pores clog and it stops working...
 
DickB said:
To be honest I find that pretty poor since there was no sign saying "NO REFUNDS" and the rope is still unwrapped. I am still debating what to do...

cheers,

Dick
Click to expand...

Dick,

I'll stick up for David Barden at Allspars; they're a good firm that deal with folk in a sensible and fair manner; the firm has a good customer focussed culture and ethics. As others have said, if you buy a bin-end then you've bought a bin-end at bin-end price. It seems to me that Allspars have been very fair to you by offering to knock of 30%.

No connection with Allspars other than a long standing happy customer; they do all my rigging work.

Rob
 
Robih said:
Dick,

I'll stick up for David Barden at Allspars; they're a good firm that deal with folk in a sensible and fair manner; the firm has a good customer focussed culture and ethics. As others have said, if you buy a bin-end then you've bought a bin-end at bin-end price. It seems to me that Allspars have been very fair to you by offering to knock of 30%.

No connection with Allspars other than a long standing happy customer; they do all my rigging work.




Rob
Click to expand...

Fair comment, and its true "buyer beware" and a recommendation from the forum counts for a lot. The guy who served me was also very pleasant. However I think if the roles were reversed I wouldn't have minded offering a refund since there was no cost involved and the rope could have just gone in the SBS bin or the bin in the shop. Ironically if they had offered a refund I would have probably gone and bought the right line at full price at the same time. Its not a big deal either way but whilst everyone alse seems to 'know' that there are no returns on these, sadly I did not. No matter, I'll sort it out when I am next in the UK.... BTW anyone want 41m of excellent quality 14mm Marlow line :-) - Bargain price... cheers... Dick
 
It is a common misconception that if a product has a 12 month or 24 month guarantee then your consumer rights terminate with the expiry of the guarantee. they do not.

Goods must be of merchantable quality and fit for purpose. Fit for purpose includes any purpose which - you having made known what you want it for - you then rely on the seller to advise you of the product, whether actually suitable or not. (i.e. if you say you want a machine to cut your lawn and the salesman sells you a chainsaw, you are entitled to rely on their advice and get a refund when the chainsaw proves unsuitable for the task)

In considering a claim, what has to determined is what the reasonable person would expect the life of the product to be. The 'claim' would then be pro-rated on that basis.

So most people might expect - for example - a washing machine to last for (say) 6 years. If it breaks down irreparably after 2 years you would be entitled to claim two thirds of the cost back in respect of the 4 years use you will no longer get from it.

I successfully use this law to claim back almost half the cost of a laptop that died after a couple of years. not without first threatening the small claims court though!

So - if the OP said to the salesperson " I need a lightweight jacket to do me for the next four or five years, I only use it occasionally" - then whatever they sell you must be fit for that purpose.

The fact that they give a two year guarantee indicates to me that they would actually expect a longer life - probably at least double that.

Finally - if your purchase was over £100 and you paid any part of it by credit card then you can claim from your credit card company and let them worry about tackling Musto for a refund (in practice they will simply make a charge reversal on their credit card account)

Finally it is the supplier NOT the manufacturer who bears the liability in law. Generally the warranty comes from the manufacturer but it is the SUPPLIER who is resposnible to you. (Again - up to them to take it up with the manufacturer)

HTH
 
Some you win, some you lose...

I've just received from Henri Lloyd a brand new pair of their top of the range leather seaboots free of charge, because my six-year old pair of the previous model of their leather seaboots begun to suffer from a hardening of the anti-slip rubber soles causing them to become extremely slippery on all surfaces and therefore dangerous. They were six years old (but had only had moderate use and hadn't been much worn on land surfaces) and I had long since lost the original purchase reciept, but they still honoured the claim.

On the other hand, when my nearly-new Tri-Lens radar reflector fell off it its mount a year ago and smashed to bits on my foredeck because the fitting was not 'fit-for-purpose' Viking (the UK distributor of this well-regarded passive reflector) told me to get lost!

To the OP: don't waste your time pursuing Musto - if you're after another inexpensive light-duty warm-weather suit, then just change brands!
 
Babylon said:
Some you win, some you lose...

I've just received from Henri Lloyd a brand new pair of their top of the range leather seaboots free of charge, because my six-year old pair of the previous model of their leather seaboots begun to suffer from a hardening of the anti-slip rubber soles causing them to become extremely slippery on all surfaces and therefore dangerous. They were six years old (but had only had moderate use and hadn't been much worn on land surfaces) and I had long since lost the original purchase reciept, but they still honoured the claim.

On the other hand, when my nearly-new Tri-Lens radar reflector fell off it its mount a year ago and smashed to bits on my foredeck because the fitting was not 'fit-for-purpose' Viking (the UK distributor of this well-regarded passive reflector) told me to get lost!

To the OP: don't waste your time pursuing Musto - if you're after another inexpensive light-duty warm-weather suit, then just change brands!
Click to expand...

Yep, that's what I'll do and I'll investigate Henri Lloyd clothing.
 
Babylon said:
On the other hand, when my nearly-new Tri-Lens radar reflector fell off it its mount a year ago and smashed to bits on my foredeck because the fitting was not 'fit-for-purpose' Viking (the UK distributor of this well-regarded passive reflector) told me to get lost!
Click to expand...
This made me chuckle.
 
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