Pantelis
New Member
Have a look at this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qyfqu6TLbo
any suggestions on how to do a low cost repair?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qyfqu6TLbo
any suggestions on how to do a low cost repair?
Mumm 36 delaminates
- Thread starter Pantelis
- Start date
rudolph_hart
Well-Known Member
Crikey !!!
That looks like foam core underneath, so you should be able to repair it in the same way I saw done on an end-grain balsa cored hull that had an area of core breakdown/delamination in the bow topsides.
1. cut out the outer-skin delaminated area (gel coat and core)
2. keep outer skin (gel coat laminate)
3. remove damaged core areas and clean the inner skin surface
4. attach new balsa core (it's available in flexible sheets) with epoxy resin
5. re-attach outer-skin with epoxy resin (let some squeeze out of the joins)
6. fair the joins, or fill with epoxy resin mixed with micro baloons
At first look on the video, it sems you have 'only' to go through steps 5 & 6.
I did the same thing on my 3/4 tonner over 20 years ago, where the (very wide) foam-core cockpit sole delaminated. It was still standing up to the racing heavy-weights leaping about when I sold her 5 years later.
Hope this helps
That looks like foam core underneath, so you should be able to repair it in the same way I saw done on an end-grain balsa cored hull that had an area of core breakdown/delamination in the bow topsides.
1. cut out the outer-skin delaminated area (gel coat and core)
2. keep outer skin (gel coat laminate)
3. remove damaged core areas and clean the inner skin surface
4. attach new balsa core (it's available in flexible sheets) with epoxy resin
5. re-attach outer-skin with epoxy resin (let some squeeze out of the joins)
6. fair the joins, or fill with epoxy resin mixed with micro baloons
At first look on the video, it sems you have 'only' to go through steps 5 & 6.
I did the same thing on my 3/4 tonner over 20 years ago, where the (very wide) foam-core cockpit sole delaminated. It was still standing up to the racing heavy-weights leaping about when I sold her 5 years later.
Hope this helps
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30boat
N/A
The BIG problem here is that the inside skin is likely to be as poorly stuck to the core as the outer.The hull can be relaminated with epoxy and rovings but the amount of work and cost will e staggering.Then the bond between core and inner skin will have to be investigated and if found to be poor,redone.Not worth it.I'd write it off .
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smth448
Well-Known Member
That looks like a nightmare to me.
The inner core looks to be in good shape although with the outer laminate removed the boat will be very floppy. It may be possible to re-laminate an outer skin but around the keel is a highly stressed area. As soon as you lift the boat now to move it to get at the bits under the cradle it may all collapse under the weights of the keel. From the video it looks like all the outer skin is coming off exposing the core, but are there any layers left attached to the core.
I would definitley take professional advice and possibly be prepared for bad news. It may be cheaper to build a new hull and transfer all the bits from this boat to that. I sippose the boat is too old to have any recourse to the builder but it may be worth a call as there was obviously a major problem with the build.
The inner core looks to be in good shape although with the outer laminate removed the boat will be very floppy. It may be possible to re-laminate an outer skin but around the keel is a highly stressed area. As soon as you lift the boat now to move it to get at the bits under the cradle it may all collapse under the weights of the keel. From the video it looks like all the outer skin is coming off exposing the core, but are there any layers left attached to the core.
I would definitley take professional advice and possibly be prepared for bad news. It may be cheaper to build a new hull and transfer all the bits from this boat to that. I sippose the boat is too old to have any recourse to the builder but it may be worth a call as there was obviously a major problem with the build.
Seajet
...
Simple.
1, Go and buy a Really Big Gun.
2, Find the addresses of the designer, builder, and person who sold the boat to you.
In reality I'm horrified, never seen anything quite like that; I hope you get a satisfactory resolution.
Publicity - here being a start- is one of your best weapons, use it wisely but if need be ruthlessly !
1, Go and buy a Really Big Gun.
2, Find the addresses of the designer, builder, and person who sold the boat to you.
In reality I'm horrified, never seen anything quite like that; I hope you get a satisfactory resolution.
Publicity - here being a start- is one of your best weapons, use it wisely but if need be ruthlessly !
flaming
Well-Known Member
Day late and a dollar short with publicity, the issues with some Mumm36s are fairly well known in racing circles. IIRC they were built by several builders, and issues with boats from 1 (now defunct) yard are not exactly uncommon.
Amongst their usual audience, although an extreme example, this would not be a massive suprise.
Seajet
...
I may well be naive, but;
If I commissioned a one-off light as a feather round the world racer, agreed with the design put under my nose by 'experts' and it fell apart under me in the Southern Ocean, I'd just about understand it.
These Mumms were trendy but not state of the art jobs, could be said to be a production boat.
If the gits have tried to get away with it by going bust, I might take other routes but I'd also certainly do my best to make sure they never worked in the marine or hopefully any manufacturing industry again; from seeing the results that goes from shop floor to Director level.
Benetau eh ? Would have thought their reputation was worth some recompense to the owner.
I would point out I have no connection to the owner, have no idea who they are, just don't like what I see from a sailor or buyer point of view.
If I commissioned a one-off light as a feather round the world racer, agreed with the design put under my nose by 'experts' and it fell apart under me in the Southern Ocean, I'd just about understand it.
These Mumms were trendy but not state of the art jobs, could be said to be a production boat.
If the gits have tried to get away with it by going bust, I might take other routes but I'd also certainly do my best to make sure they never worked in the marine or hopefully any manufacturing industry again; from seeing the results that goes from shop floor to Director level.
Benetau eh ? Would have thought their reputation was worth some recompense to the owner.
I would point out I have no connection to the owner, have no idea who they are, just don't like what I see from a sailor or buyer point of view.
CharlesSwallow
Well-Known Member
Who, SERIOUSLY thinks that...
...it was ever built to last into old age as a proper boat?
It was built as a RACER. Could you take the family on holiday for twenty years in the Red Bull F1 car?
Horses for c...etc?
Chas
...it was ever built to last into old age as a proper boat?
It was built as a RACER. Could you take the family on holiday for twenty years in the Red Bull F1 car?
Horses for c...etc?
Chas
flaming
Well-Known Member
Prepared to be corrected, but cant remember a link to beneteau in these boats.
Ubergeekian
Well-Known Member
There are no circumstances whatsoever in which I would be prepared to sail in that boat, regardless of repairs. It's a goner.
Seajet
...
The text at the bottom of the horror video says Benetau; maybe if not involved they should be contacting their lawyers, their muscle might even prove useful.
I am not sure of the relative costs, but maybe the remaining boat could be used as a plug to mould a more traditional GRP boat ?
If interested I know a GRP moulding co. who might be interested ( nothing in it for me ! ).
Just a thought.
I tend to disagree with the 'Formula 1 car' analogy, boats are not supposed to be disposable, sure I can think of a famous one-off which proved nearly so but even she remained / remains a useful floaty thingie.
Even if no longer competetive, this boat just simply should not fall apart, if it was an aircraft it would be front page news, and boats are life supporting vehicles too.
I am not sure of the relative costs, but maybe the remaining boat could be used as a plug to mould a more traditional GRP boat ?
If interested I know a GRP moulding co. who might be interested ( nothing in it for me ! ).
Just a thought.
I tend to disagree with the 'Formula 1 car' analogy, boats are not supposed to be disposable, sure I can think of a famous one-off which proved nearly so but even she remained / remains a useful floaty thingie.
Even if no longer competetive, this boat just simply should not fall apart, if it was an aircraft it would be front page news, and boats are life supporting vehicles too.
dt4134
Well-Known Member
C'mon, boats like the Mumm 36 are design & built to be as light as possible to be as competitive as possible but it does mean they won't last a lifetime, even though this one appears to have had build probs and should've lasted longer.
Stripped out racers do depreciate a great deal pretty quickly, mainly because rating rule evolution makes them less competitive. They seem to sell at a far bigger discount to the asking price than cruisers do so don't be fooled by asking prices you see.
So, I suspect that it wouldn't be worth the cost of repairing this one. As a poster said above, they could strip off the sails, gear, rig & keel and build a new boat around it, perhaps one that rates a little bit more efficiently.
Seajet
...
'Won't be competetive for long' - I agree.
'Won't be a boat for long' - I have a problem with this !
'Won't be a boat for long' - I have a problem with this !
Ubergeekian
Well-Known Member
In the Mumm 36 Brochure from the Farr Design website, Beneteau are listed as one of the builders. It says they built one, and suggests that they built more: "Beneteau's experience and success record are reflected in the success the Mumm 36 is having in Europe, where more than 27 Mumm 36s are actively sailing."
dt4134
Well-Known Member
I said 'won't last a lifetime', which is a wee bit different from 'won't be a boat for long'.
Essential I agree with the poster who drew the analogy with F1 cars. In neither case can I see longevity as being the primary design goal.
flaming
Well-Known Member
I stand corrected then!
Seajet
...
Dt4134,
" Longevity is not the prime goal"...
No offence, but remind me never to fly or sail with you !
Seajet
" Longevity is not the prime goal"...
No offence, but remind me never to fly or sail with you !
Seajet
dt4134
Well-Known Member
So you'd go up to a designer and say "I want to buy a racing boat. I don't care how fast it is or how it rates but I want it to last 100 years." I've no doubt the designer will produce a nice little design for you, but you won't win anything beyond beer can races.
Seajet
...
If I was still bobbing around a few hundred feet above the rest, I'd reckon that makes me the winner !
dt4134
Well-Known Member
Best of luck. I trust you'll let everyone know if it turns out to be a successful racing tactic for you.
