MS4 Gearbox - Delay in engaging Forwards when warm

[BruceK]

Yes, I don’t seem to have much luck when it comes to boats. It’s getting to the stage where the stress and anxiety is outweighing the fun so maybe time to re-think!

Hang in there. Monday I was ready to throw in the towel. Today the boat was surveyed and evaluated and the surveyor who had done the boat when in PO ownership was extremely complimentary and said she was very well presented. So today I am once more a happy fella looking forward to Monday's lift in. I cant begin to tell you the grief I have all been through this season on the hard, nor how much I've bled. It's worth it in the end imo.

 

[volvopaul]

You can slide the shaft back although you have the John Crane seals , it’s just that while you do it you get water enter the boat . Same set up as my old corniche.

 

[Dazzajohm]

Thanks for the replies everyone. If the gearbox does need to come out I will as the engineers to double check why the think it can’t be done in water and as suggested above speak to the supplier for confirmation.

But, the plot thickens as always with me!

Took boat out yesterday for a run and noticed lots of vibration coming from the side in question. So ran the other side on its own, lovely and smooth with no issues. Ran the stbd side on its own and a shed load of vibration. So hot foot it back in to the marina. Noticed small amount of gearbox oil in bilge and of course same issue with gearbox.

Now of course I’m thinking this vibration is what’s causing this gearbox issue so plan is to get the other half’s go pro on a selfie stick today to look at props for fouling although surely even I can’t have been that unlucky to have picked something up immediately after re launch. Failing that I have no idea what could be causing it.

UPDATE:
Checked the prop for fouling, and nothing there. Only other thing is I had the cutlas bearings replaced while she was on the hard. It’s the only other thing that’s changed between when I last used the boat and now. Is there anything that can go wrong with a new cutlas bearing and could this be th cause of the vibration? Other than that I really have no idea what else it could be.

 

[volvopaul]

Thanks for the replies everyone. If the gearbox does need to come out I will as the engineers to double check why the think it can’t be done in water and as suggested above speak to the supplier for confirmation.

But, the plot thickens as always with me!

Took boat out yesterday for a run and noticed lots of vibration coming from the side in question. So ran the other side on its own, lovely and smooth with no issues. Ran the stbd side on its own and a shed load of vibration. So hot foot it back in to the marina. Noticed small amount of gearbox oil in bilge and of course same issue with gearbox.

Now of course I’m thinking this vibration is what’s causing this gearbox issue so plan is to get the other half’s go pro on a selfie stick today to look at props for fouling although surely even I can’t have been that unlucky to have picked something up immediately after re launch. Failing that I have no idea what could be causing it.

UPDATE:
Checked the prop for fouling, and nothing there. Only other thing is I had the cutlas bearings replaced while she was on the hard. It’s the only other thing that’s changed between when I last used the boat and now. Is there anything that can go wrong with a new cutlas bearing and could this be th cause of the vibration? Other than that I really have no idea what else it could be.

Sound like the bearing had fallen out or it’s not been attached to the p bracket with grub screws causing it to rotate in the p bracket

 

[Dazzajohm]

Thanks Paul, what you say does seem to make the most sense. Question is, if I solve the vibration issue will that in turn solve the gearbox problem, or is just coincidence and there’s a problem with that too?

For anyone that’s interested, the videos I took of the props etc are here. Really nothing obvious that I can see;

Good side
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mf5Oo-Yg9Yo

Bad side
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iQqq2kasaA

 

[Dazzajohm]

Update for those of you interested...

Finally decided on a course of action. The engineers are going to try remove the gearbox with the boat in the water, although they are definitely a little uneasy with doing so.. I’ve found a place locally who have fixed the MS4 before and sounded like they know what they’re talking about - www.townsendsltd.co.uk so hoping they can fix it and depending on parts and what’s required should be able to do in a week.

Then all being well gearbox will go back and will see from there what vibration is like, or whether it’s been solved. Will use a new flexible R&D as well which might help.

Is there such thing as a manual detailing how to remove the gearbox? Just I’m sure I’ve read on here that gearbox should come off in an hour but my engineers gave me the impression it might take some time as the strainer has to be removed and something else has to be removed too etc.

 

[volvopaul]

Update for those of you interested...

Finally decided on a course of action. The engineers are going to try remove the gearbox with the boat in the water, although they are definitely a little uneasy with doing so.. I’ve found a place locally who have fixed the MS4 before and sounded like they know what they’re talking about - www.townsendsltd.co.uk so hoping they can fix it and depending on parts and what’s required should be able to do in a week.

Then all being well gearbox will go back and will see from there what vibration is like, or whether it’s been solved. Will use a new flexible R&D as well which might help.

Is there such thing as a manual detailing how to remove the gearbox? Just I’m sure I’ve read on here that gearbox should come off in an hour but my engineers gave me the impression it might take some time as the strainer has to be removed and something else has to be removed too etc.

Once the box is out on the bench it’s an hours job to change the cone , they will need to know the correct procedure to shimm the vertical shaft and fit the correct size spacer nut .
They must also fit the revised shift shoe and yet again shimm it correct otherwise it will either lock in gear or jump out under way .

 

[Dazzajohm]

Once the box is out on the bench it’s an hours job to change the cone , they will need to know the correct procedure to shimm the vertical shaft and fit the correct size spacer nut .
They must also fit the revised shift shoe and yet again shimm it correct otherwise it will either lock in gear or jump out under way .

Thanks Paul. I guess I can only hope these people know what they’re doing. They said they’ve done them before and I certainly got the impression they knew what they were doing from talking to them - I told them the issue and they came to the cone issue same as you but impression I got was they would order new bits in rather than shimm anything as when I asked how long it would take he said they can do the work within a day or two but might take longer for parts to arrive (although I have to confess being non technical I have no idea what shimming actually means)

 

[volvopaul]

Thanks Paul. I guess I can only hope these people know what they’re doing. They said they’ve done them before and I certainly got the impression they knew what they were doing from talking to them - I told them the issue and they came to the cone issue same as you but impression I got was they would order new bits in rather than shimm anything as when I asked how long it would take he said they can do the work within a day or two but might take longer for parts to arrive (although I have to confess being non technical I have no idea what shimming actually means) [/

If they know what there doing you have no need to worry .
Read the post again , new parts need shimming .
When you strip a box and rebuild with new or used parts

 

[Dazzajohm]

Thanks Paul. I guess I can only hope these people know what they’re doing. They said they’ve done them before and I certainly got the impression they knew what they were doing from talking to them - I told them the issue and they came to the cone issue same as you but impression I got was they would order new bits in rather than shimm anything as when I asked how long it would take he said they can do the work within a day or two but might take longer for parts to arrive (although I have to confess being non technical I have no idea what shimming actually means) [/

If they know what there doing you have no need to worry .
Read the post again , new parts need shimming .
When you strip a box and rebuild with new or used parts

OK, great. Thanks for your help Paul, appreciated

 

[Samarano]

Hi, I watched your videos. If you look close, could it be the case that the shaft anode has been put on right against the bearing bracket? Its difficult to fully see. If you do have a shaft anode and it is against the bracket I would have thought it starves the bearing of cooling flow, then burn out and might be where your vibration is. Worth another check?

 

[Dazzajohm]

Hi, I watched your videos. If you look close, could it be the case that the shaft anode has been put on right against the bearing bracket? Its difficult to fully see. If you do have a shaft anode and it is against the bracket I would have thought it starves the bearing of cooling flow, then burn out and might be where your vibration is. Worth another check?

That shaft anode does appear to have moved closer to the P bracket, but I was wondering if the vibration caused that. A good point about the cooling of the bearing though and certainly a question I’ll ask the engineers.

 

[Dazzajohm]

Well gearbox is out and has been stripped;

“We have completely stripped the gearbox. Bearings are fine.
Spring (3852296) is a little slack and is an easy job to replace.
All gears are in good condition. Slight ware on centre shaft gear (853523) but not excessive.
Cone clutch is worn and could do with replacing (3858669 I can not prove that this is the correct part number) it still has an edge on it so its not completely worn out.

I have started looking around for a spare but it is proving very hard to come by.”

Now that I’ve found someone locally who can sort the box, I can now see that there are going to be problems locating the replacement cone, although from their report it seems it’s not completely worn so I’m hoping if a replacement can be found it will solve my issues ��

UPDATE:
By way of a further update, I have now found a few places to get a new cone from (if it’s the right part number) Jeez, more expensive than I thought. The guys looking at the gearbox have said that although it would by no means be a permanent fix , they could take a shim out which would bring the cone closer together and give me some more life out of it. Does anyone know if this is worth doing or should I just bite the bullet and buy the new cone?

 

[Samarano]

If you look at the video of the Port side, it also looks the same. I doubt vibration would move them anodes unless not fully tight.