lw395
Well-Known Member
Perhaps the judgment of doing the exercise in that particular place is questionable?
But the RNLI like to do these exercises (stunts?) where they will be seen by a lot of people afloat.
Mowed down by a racing fleet
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Perhaps the judgment of doing the exercise in that particular place is questionable?
But the RNLI like to do these exercises (stunts?) where they will be seen by a lot of people afloat.
Tidewaiter2
Well-Known Member
+1, good seamanship means you give units constrained by something like a hi line xfer plenty of sea room, even if it is 'for exercise' only, and how do you know it's not for real, with a inshore casevac actually in progress, unless you are monitoring 16(or 0
) closely.i doubt many of those dinghies have vhf?
Seajet
...
I would mention that I was trundling along in Poole Harbour, West of the bridge heading for Cobbs Quay one day years ago when an offshore lifeboat ( don't remember the class ) and a helicopter turned up in front of me doing a hi-line exercise, I had Channel 16 on and had heard nothing...
I went around them slowly with the keel up in shallows giving a very wide berth, but got no signals or radio contact; no doubt they were swearing at me as much as I was at them, but on Channel zero - I suppose it was alright as the RNLI can do no wrong, and anyway they own that part of the harbour don't they ?!
I went around them slowly with the keel up in shallows giving a very wide berth, but got no signals or radio contact; no doubt they were swearing at me as much as I was at them, but on Channel zero - I suppose it was alright as the RNLI can do no wrong, and anyway they own that part of the harbour don't they ?!
Talulah
Well-Known Member
I would mention that I was trundling along in Poole Harbour, West of the bridge heading for Cobbs Quay one day years ago when an offshore lifeboat ( don't remember the class ) and a helicopter turned up in front of me doing a hi-line exercise, I had Channel 16 on and had heard nothing...
I went around them slowly with the keel up in shallows giving a very wide berth, but got no signals or radio contact; no doubt they were swearing at me as much as I was at them, but on Channel zero - I suppose it was alright as the RNLI can do no wrong, and anyway they own that part of the harbour don't they ?!
Most likely they were on ch 67
Seajet
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wotayottie
Well-Known Member
Nobody is saying they should not Jimi. But this we hate racers type thread comes up as often as the which anchor thread or the colregs threads or the RYA exam threads or the mobo vs raggie thread. Everything that can be said has been said. Twice over at least.
And you know what - no one is listening.
Tidewaiter2
Well-Known Member
Now which anchor and daymark is best to use when you need to reply to a YBW Fred??
Hey, we're Forumites, nothing will stop us restating the obvious & done to death over and over, and over and over, and....
Hey, we're Forumites, nothing will stop us restating the obvious & done to death over and over, and over and over, and....
Greenheart
Well-Known Member
Just the same, there are some strong views being expressed. Here's one:
Better for cruisers, passers-by and racers themselves, if we collectively employ a blanket-policy, which absolutely never makes any detour or course-change for any racers' convenience, other than is required by their existing right-of-way.
Let them know that it's never okay to expect or request space merely for the reason of their competition. Because in the heat of racing, they're often unable to distinguish when their cutting-it-close is of no consequence, as opposed to a blooming liberty or danger.
Once it's understood that their sport can never expect any space already occupied by other vessels, they'll stop presuming. But if we're content to let some come through some of the time, they'll all expect that freedom whenever it benefits their race-strategy.
There are of course some thoroughly considerate, genuinely sophisticated racers, who don't presume. But they're not the problem.
Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
Like I said earlier there is always one xxxxxxxxxxxxx. ,!!
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bbg
Well-Known Member
A strong view indeed. Not very considerate, but that seems to be entirely in character for you.
Will you apply the same principle to commercial traffic when crossing a shipping lane?
What is wrong with, "I'll avoid spoiling someone's day if it isn't too inconvenient for me, but if I can't do that then we all know which rules we're playing by (IRPCAS). And if I do encounter one of the problem few, I'll make sure he gets the message by reporting him to the club running the race."?
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flaming
Well-Known Member
Look, now you're just being sensible. Don't tell me this place went and actually grew up whilst I was away?
bbg
Well-Known Member
If you keep flinging accusations like that around you'll get yourself banned, mister.
You have no idea what you missed. So many threads deleted.
Greenheart
Well-Known Member
Such genteel anticipation of good manners, will continue to encourage many racers to expect others to share the notional importance of their little contests. If IRPCAS is a pick-&-choose philosophy, who knows when the other chap won't feel like playing by the rules?
Instead of corrupting the purity of a sporting occasion by actively allowing some racers a clearer passage than those who took the effort to avoid you, why not always encourage as a racing principle, the total avoidance of non-competing vessels?
No racer's spirit of fun needs to feel dampened; the philosophy needs to be recognised as always applicable. Non-racing vessels will be recognised as obstacles to steer clear of; appealing to them to move over will be regarded as "not done".
Before a racing fleet encounters other vessels at close quarters, the necessity to pass astern or well ahead would be tacit. No steering close, then protesting that the cruiser's position coincides inconveniently with a path the racer might have picked in an ideal world.
Seajet
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Dan,
you are missing the point; if your wife/crew is already hassling you and racing gits turn up apparently having more fun, it's in the secret instructions to tack or motor directly in front of them, don't you read anything man ?!
The SS are another matter, it's worth going in front just to see if they can tack, but it's a good idea having ones' insurance, a lifejacket and a video camera to hand
you are missing the point; if your wife/crew is already hassling you and racing gits turn up apparently having more fun, it's in the secret instructions to tack or motor directly in front of them, don't you read anything man ?!
The SS are another matter, it's worth going in front just to see if they can tack, but it's a good idea having ones' insurance, a lifejacket and a video camera to hand
Greenheart
Well-Known Member
Dan,
you are missing the point; if your wife/crew is already hassling you and racing gits turn up apparently having more fun, it's in the secret instructions to tack or motor directly in front of them, don't you read anything man ?!
Good grief! Have I got completely the wrong end of the stick?!Sorry chaps!
I thought there was a degree of anger about mindless dinghy-racers cutting-up passing boats, as if was their right...
...I hadn't realised there are vigilante-yachts, deliberately getting in racers' way. Very unsporting! Quite funny, though.
Quandary
Well-Known Member
Just read all of the 100 odd posts on this subject not sure why, I learn't nothing. As a former keen racer I just could not grasp what all this aggro. is about, but then I remembered visiting a boat on the Hamble on a summer Sunday evening.
The problem does not occur further North, in mixed handicap fleets up here it is almost always better to dip under rather than have the hassle of dirty wind from a tacked boat, same with passing cruisers, so you hear calls of 'hold your course' a lot more often than 'Starboard' except perhaps very close to turning marks.
Hens peck each others bums and kill the weakest if they are too crowded, so do pigs and it sounds as if it is something the same for the sailing species.
It must be the crowded sailing water that is responsible for all the aggression, so if that steel boat turns round, chases you and pecks your bum because you sailed close under his stern, it is not his fault, he is responding to his environment.
The problem does not occur further North, in mixed handicap fleets up here it is almost always better to dip under rather than have the hassle of dirty wind from a tacked boat, same with passing cruisers, so you hear calls of 'hold your course' a lot more often than 'Starboard' except perhaps very close to turning marks.
Hens peck each others bums and kill the weakest if they are too crowded, so do pigs and it sounds as if it is something the same for the sailing species.
It must be the crowded sailing water that is responsible for all the aggression, so if that steel boat turns round, chases you and pecks your bum because you sailed close under his stern, it is not his fault, he is responding to his environment.
Seajet
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Comments about the South being crowded are either tongoue in cheek by regulars like me or clueless people; I sail from Chichester and you're' all welcome for a daysail where I think you'll have a lot of fun without harassment !
PM me if wanting a trip,
Andy
PM me if wanting a trip,
Andy
Quandary
Well-Known Member
Why would even 'clueless people' be interested in your bowel habits or even where you keep your tongue, even if I actually was clueless I could not think of anything or anyone of less interest.
Glad to hear the density may have changed, seemed to be an awful lot of boats about in a small area to me, and if it is not crowded and there are no space problems why so much heat on the subject in this long thread.
I should have been more careful not to post immediately after one of your pronouncements, I certainly was not responding to your wisdom, but on most threads it is hard to avoid as you have so very much to say. I will go off now and seek some intelligent company out in the chicken run.
wotayottie
Well-Known Member
I expect you run the rest of your life on this selfish basis - never let anyone out at a junction, never let the person buying one item into the checkout queue ahead of your full trolley. Nice but fairly typical of the attitude of our fellow Brits these days.
Greenheart
Well-Known Member
With respect to you, Yottie, you're comprehensively mistaken about me. I'm so absurdly, uncommonly, old-fashionedly courteous, I might have stepped from an episode of Poirot...
...but if, as I exhibit minor courtesies in doorways or parking spaces or anywhere else, the other fellows show themselves to be surly & presumptious or disinclined to demonstrate any instinct to think of anyone but themselves, I don't believe it pays to let them think that's fine.
Racers don't fire-up my dislike unless they presume that their day's sport justifies steering towards exactly the bit of space I'll be occupying in a few moments, unless I make a particular point of avoiding them.
That's the thing - I'll usually avoid a near-thing by thinking well ahead. But the selfish racer thinks ahead, recognises an imminent near-thing, but still steers his course so singlemindedly, it eventually gets dangerous, until the non-racer makes an effort to prevent chaos!
To be fair, even at my most cynical, I know that type of racer is happily rare. But I genuinely believe it would be easier to stamp out racers' stupid pragmatical adherence to courses which worry or inconvenience other boaters, by never getting out of their way.
As soon as they took care always to pass astern, the problem would cease. It's only a matter of club customs/rules, which are always open to modification when there's a reason. If such a policy existed, racers would be a welcome addition to the activity and colour...
...never a reason to expect selfish and cavalier steering.
Not much different to motor cruisers speeding through moorings, is it? If they didn't sometimes take liberties, there wouldn't be an ineradicable mutual distrust, most of which is not justified.
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