Moving mast on board before stepping

[Refueler]

Guy I knew had some short rod bridles made up ... he would clip to toerail ... top apex to cap shrouds ... giving him change of anchor point of the cap shrouds. With care they assisted keeping mast straight.
Another guy I knew - used rolling hitch lines to cap shrouds, led forward to set higher point of pivot on shrouds.

So far my A frame seems to work ok without .... just need to see if I can use for the horizontal work.

The idea of rolling on cabin top is not really viable as my pushpit / pulpit are much higher and I usually have a sprayhood ... even the hood down would be an obstruction.

 

[davidpbo]

I have a 23ft trailer sailor with 10m mast of larger section than usually found on a boat of this size. We raise the mast ourselves. I made a jury rig out of what I had around at the time (2004) and have not got ound to replacing it.

To move the mast back I have an aluminium scaff pole which bolts onto a substantial wooden bracket which hangs on the transom top about about 8ft aabove the transom, at the top is mounted a boat trailer roller with some short posts on ether side to make sure the mast does not come out. I so take a line forward to a cleat from the roller backet and wedge the bottom of the wooden bracket.

My mast pivots in front of the cabin. The height of the pole is set so that when the bottom of the mast is in the mast foot pivot it just clears the cabin roof ( I have ot make sure the gooseneck is taped up other wise that catches).

The trailer has to be locked on the tow hitch of my car and that the area behing the boat is suitably protected. The mast overhangs the back of the boat by about 6.5m .

The mast securing straps (for towing) are removed from the mast and the mast firmly but loosely secure to a block of wood across the focsle such that it will not slip forward but will pivot. I go to just behind the cabin where there is a ledge with the mainsheet traveller fitted which put me about 2/3rds back the mast and lift it, and drop it into the trailer roller. I then carefully unsecre the mast at the focsle and keeping hold of it push it back in the roller.

With the back pole rigged and secured I I stand just behind the cabin which puts me at about 2/3rds of the mast and lift it into the trailer roller on the pole. I am 66 and could do it OK last year.

With my wife using a boat hook to make sure the shrouds etc. don't catch and stay in the right places, I push the mast back get it to the pivot point and put the pin in. All is now safe so I can rig the next bit

That is a stand of pole pole (Ali scaff again with another wooden bracket which sits over the front of the mast and is ratchet strapped on. Two ratchet straps go port and starboard to a short loop of rope push through the gunwhales which bring the attachment points of the straps up in line with the pivot point of the mast (about 60mm) Two more ratchet straps go from the loops to a marked point on the mast that is as high as I can reach when the mast is up. These are good quality rated straps as they are temporary baby stays.

I then attach a block and tackle (3 sheaves at each end) between the end of the pole and a samson post just aft of the forestay fixing point and take the rope end back to the winch. Make sure the shroud bottle screws are corectly aligned and will stay so, I usually tape them with one turn of pvc to the gurad rail such the tape breaks easily when it comes under tension. I can raise the mast myself using the pulley system from the bow but my wife usually assists with the winch.

I do take my time doing it as Iike to check everything thoroughly. I can stop and have brew or check things at any time.
I have done it on the water but obviously you have to be reasonably confident there will not be siginificant wash or waves.

I may have some pictures I can post.

 

[Refueler]

Hi David ..... when I saw the guy with the pvc water pipe roller ... I was trying to remember where I had seen multi roller set up .... your mentioning boat trailer rollers hits the spot dead on.

I'm a bit luckier - despite heavier mast - that my mast step is on cabin top. ... so I don't have to have such extreme height at transom. The height I have now - is basically get in / out of cockpit / cabin without hassle.

The rollers and pole ... have to look around

 

[Lucy52]

If the problem is lifting the mast from the ground to the deck and you have an A frame to raise the mast once there, then you could use the A frame set sideways to lift the mast onto the deck.
With the mast laying on the port hand side ground, the A frame set up on the starboard side of the yacht, the mast could be raised from the ground by lowering the A frame over the yacht and raising the mast to deck level with a tackle.
By raising the frame the mast could be placed on the centre line of the yacht. It could also be manhandled fore and aft to line it up with the mast step or tabernacle while the weight is taken by the A frame. You would have to make some arrangement to secure the A frame sideways on.
As everything on a boat should have more than one use, it could also be used to haul a heave dinghy aboard.

 

[Refueler]

If the problem is lifting the mast from the ground to the deck and you have an A frame to raise the mast once there, then you could use the A frame set sideways to lift the mast onto the deck.
With the mast laying on the port hand side ground, the A frame set up on the starboard side of the yacht, the mast could be raised from the ground by lowering the A frame over the yacht and raising the mast to deck level with a tackle.
By raising the frame the mast could be placed on the centre line of the yacht. It could also be manhandled fore and aft to line it up with the mast step or tabernacle while the weight is taken by the A frame. You would have to make some arrangement to secure the A frame sideways on.
As everything on a boat should have more than one use, it could also be used to haul a heave dinghy aboard.

No the mast is already on the boat .. see first post as here :

The mast for trucking / on hard during winter has been moved forward so mast foot now sits over pulpit. It takes two strong guys to lift it and move it horizontally aft to be able to engage the mast foot with the deck step. That distance is about 4m ...

 

[davidpbo]

Hi David ..... when I saw the guy with the pvc water pipe roller ... I was trying to remember where I had seen multi roller set up .... your mentioning boat trailer rollers hits the spot dead on.

I'm a bit luckier - despite heavier mast - that my mast step is on cabin top. ... so I don't have to have such extreme height at transom. The height I have now - is basically get in / out of cockpit / cabin without hassle.

The rollers and pole ... have to look around

Just buy boat roller from Indespension/Towsure/ebay or look around the boatyard skip.

I would none the less go for pole and roller as high as possible. The force required to get the mast up that first bit is the most. when I start lifting the mast is already at 25 degrees.

 

[Refueler]

Just buy boat roller from Indespension/Towsure/ebay or look around the boatyard skip.

I would none the less go for pole and roller as high as possible. The force required to get the mast up that first bit is the most. when I start lifting the mast is already at 25 degrees.

But first we need to get Indespension etc. to start selling over here in Latvia !! eBay applies that stupid Global Shipping Plan to most things sent here as well

Boatyard skip ... I DREAM OF THE UK BOATYARD SKIPS !!

Raising mast is no problem at all - that's sorted. My A frame is near 3m high .. so it has decent angle to the mast in that X frame you see in first photo and with foot down at step.

Its getting the mast moved along ... so far with present gear - the A frame and bridle is winning ... but roller and pole is on my wanted list .

 

[Lucy52]

No the mast is already on the boat .. see first post as here :......

The mast for trucking / on hard during winter has been moved forward so mast foot now sits over pulpit. It takes two strong guys to lift it and move it horizontally aft to be able to engage the mast foot with the deck step. That distance is about 4m ...

Thank you. The A frame could still be used as you have to set it up astride the yacht to raise the mast anyway.

With the A frame vertical attach the mast below with a strop or tackle and lower the A frame aftwards keeping the mast clear of trhe deck with the strop/tackle. The distance you are able to move the mast depends on the hight of the A Frame. Repeat if necessary. A stern roller particularly a high one as described by paulpbo above would help. Perhaps that is what you mean by a "bridle", sorry if I misunderstand.

 

[Refueler]

mmm description ...

Set the A frame standing vertically at mid point of mast across the deck. Have tackle and a long strop .. the strop halved into a V bridle. The ends made fast to mast at reasonable distance apart so mast lifts level.
A frame can then be tilted to move apex and therefore the V bridle aft. Stop .. reposition and tilt again. Repeat till mast is in position.
I would not try to tilt the A frame too far - avoiding possible bending and collapse of the poles. They are strong but best in compression.

 

[Refueler]

mmm thinking - I have to check if the angle the two poles set can have ends on side decks. I may have to set the A frame on coachroof. That should be OK s I have a strong channel each side that feet can lock to.

 

[Lucy52]

If the aft end of the mast were be supported on an aft roller it would take some end load and make it more stable.

 

[William_H]

Hello Nigel. A few comments on your dilemma. The bit of conduit for a roller I think is poor. You need a roller of significant diameter to reduce friction of rolling of mast. It is going to have a lot of weight on the roller as you approach final position. You might find a line through a sheave at the top useful to help pull the mast back through the crutch. (against the inherent rolling resistance.
The crutch at the back is a problem. The typical crossed wooden crutch sits inside the cockpit on the floor. This is typically too far forward so mast when near final position is very top heavy. Mine is a post sitting on the top pivot of the transom mounted rudder. Clamped top the stern rail. Not applicable to your boat. Guy in the video made a wooden clamp like arrangement to sit on transom.
Yes I think pole type A frame pivoted on the deck or cabin top well down the deck near back of cabin. Stay the A frame in fore and aft direction with lines that you can adjust from your operating position. I envisage leaning the A frame forward by say 30 degrees then use a tackle to lift the weight of the mast so that you can slide mast forward. The A frame swings to vertical then aft by 30 degrees. All controlled hopefully by fore and aft stays to the A frame. You may then need to move the bases of the A frame further aft to lift and slide. Eventually all the weight of the mast will be on the stern crutch.
On my little boat with light tapered mast with mast far enough back in the crutch it is near balanced needs just a little press down to fit the pivot bolt into the step.
Fortunately I have a son who has done it so many times is very strong and willing. I semi regard it as his boat now I just pay the bills. I stand at the cockpit facing aft lifting and sliding mast aft on the roller of the crutch which does not work very well while he carries the mast base and fits the pin.
Done it now about 50 times so well practiced.
However to do it alone (I understand your desire for independence ) with a much heavier mast will require much forethought and planning.
I helped a friend recently with a 25fter and heavy mast taking the boat out of the water on a trailer then lowering and stowing mast. His mast was very much top heavy when lowered to the crutch. Two of us ended up lifting the top of the mast with a step ladder from the ground. This solved the over balance problem and he removed the pin and carried base forward.
Re mention of extended chain plates on cap shrouds. This is extremely common on mast head rig boats around here. Very good but no good for fractional rigs Other tricks needed to stay mast sideways as it goes down.
Re mention of a friend with keel stepped mast. What is done here is to cut the mast through at 45 degrees about .75 metre above deck. Plates are welded across the cuts and lugs welded to the plates so at the aft side the lugs meet to make a pivot hinge and at the front plates extend out so they can be bolted together. Pretty drastic surgery but essential if you want to negotiate bridges. It does mean mast retains it's longitudinal shape down to keel despite the hinge.
Good luck and be careful with the relaunch and mast raising . ol'will

 

[davidpbo]

But first we need to get Indespension etc. to start selling over here in Latvia !! eBay applies that stupid Global Shipping Plan to most things sent here as well

Boatyard skip ... I DREAM OF THE UK BOATYARD SKIPS !!

Raising mast is no problem at all - that's sorted. My A frame is near 3m high .. so it has decent angle to the mast in that X frame you see in first photo and with foot down at step.

Its getting the mast moved along ... so far with present gear - the A frame and bridle is winning ... but roller and pole is on my wanted list .

Do they not have trailer manufacturers or spares suppliers in Latvia or other EU country?
I well remember the self emptying skip we had at the end of an exhibition in Romania at the end of an exhibition. Every night we would fill it and every moring it would be empty witout a collection.

Thinking about it I bought some 80mm dia rubber wheels with the original intention of fiting them to ladders to run them up walls. They got re-tasked as runners for the pulley block I use for raising the mast when deployed on a scaff tube for lifting the outboard out of the well and moving it back over the transom 8ft up. A couple of trolley wheels (Sack or similar) with a spacer could be used.

 

[Refueler]

We have Trailer manufacturers - mostly in Estonia - but they don't like to sell parts ... they only want to sell whole trailers.

Your self-emptying skip ........... yep !!

In Soviet times and for years after .. it was common practice to put old items out in the street ... divans ... chairs .. car batterys ... literally anything ... and by morning it was gone. The old saying - "One mans (s)crap is another mans gold" .. rang true.

 

[davidpbo]

Isn't that there another EU country you could buy one from and get it shipped for not too much?

 

[fisherman]

I misconstrued your problem. Simplest lifting gear on an old FV was a scotch pole, just what it says, a pole planted on or through the deck, with a gilson, another pole, foot planted on a swivel next to it and tackle between the top ends. In your case plant it on the shore. It may need stays, probably not if big enough.

Drift: we were hauling baskets of mackerel by hand up the quay in Newlyn, small boats with no landing gear. One chap was seen looking at the drain holes along the quay edge. Next day he turned up with a small steel post and gallows bracket with a block, dropped the post in a hole, he led a rope back down to the boat pot hauler. A week later we all had them.

 

[Refueler]

I misconstrued your problem. Simplest lifting gear on an old FV was a scotch pole, just what it says, a pole planted on or through the deck, with a gilson, another pole, foot planted on a swivel next to it and tackle between the top ends. In your case plant it on the shore. It may need stays, probably not if big enough.

Drift: we were hauling baskets of mackerel by hand up the quay in Newlyn, small boats with no landing gear. One chap was seen looking at the drain holes along the quay edge. Next day he turned up with a small steel post and gallows bracket with a block, dropped the post in a hole, he led a rope back down to the boat pot hauler. A week later we all had them.

Yep - know what you mean ...

The ground that would be best location I have - is very soft as its the material dredged out few years back. To set up a Ginny would require serious depth of upright driven in. But it sure has crossed my mind.

We looked at it not only for mast work - but also to lift the small boats in / out. The trees behind are too young or too far apart ...

The list of possible ways is growing !!

 

[fisherman]

OK. The other way dockside hoists have been cobbled up: triangular sat on the ground with a long leg behind along the ground, with heavy weights piled on.
Extra master Graham Danton, in his Manual of Seamanship, for a mooring strongpoint in soft ground: a spar laid out, with a row of stakes knocked in along its length, at an angle. 6ft behind each stake is another stake, with a purchase (wagon hitch) from the top of the front stake to the bottom of the rear one, repeat ad infinitum. Shouldn't take you too long....
However, BT use a short length of pole buried with the stay attached in the middle. In your case as a back stay the pull will be 45degs or less, so unlikely to pull out. Just use a piece of tree with a chain round it. Then you can use an A frame sat on the ground, all made from trees if you have no access to ready made poles.
Wish I had a project like this.
I did once use a tree to lift the engine from a van. When I came to replace it the wind had got up, the engine was in and out many times before I got the bolts in.
Another trick for lifting a boat engine out onto the deck: 'A' frame, block, ropes both sides and a number of railway chairs 20kg each, we use them for end weights on gear. Attached and tossed over board one at a time until equibrium was reached and the engine lifted with one hand.

 

[Refueler]

Dear Mr Danton ... lecturer at Plymouth Maritime ... I had him as a Lecturer and we all had to have a copy of his book ..

Must admit it was more convenient that all the Volumes of Admiralty Seamanship !

My Brother when he came back to UK from Canada - nicked my Dantons to take back for his Masters exam ... later when I asked for it back - he denied he had it !! Now he lives in Florida - so I assume its gracing a shelf in Plantation, Florida now.