Motoring up wind with main sail up

[alan_d]

we wont mention Anchor Ball / lights will we
Rule 30
Anchored vessels and vessels aground
(a) A vessel at anchor shall exhibit where it can best be seen:
(i) in the fore part, an all-round white light or one ball;

I think by stressing the first four words of 30(a)(i), which are not in bold in the original, you are selectively quoting and risk misleading people. Most leisure sailors navigate in vessels less than 50 metres long so are covered by Rule 30(b):

A vessel of less than 50 metres in length may exhibit an all-round white light where it can best be seen [my emphasis] instead of the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule.

 

[prv]

The pitching and crashing are horrendous, with green water coming over the foredeck. The next thing I do is go forward and frig about hoisting a motoring cone . . . erm, I don't think so.

Welcome to sailing in the real world.

I don't see what your point is. He didn't say everyone does, or must, hoist a cone. Just that the rules are clear about when you are supposed to. And they are.

It's as if you're arguing that there isn't a seventy mph speed limit on the motorway on the basis that many of us exceed it.

Pete

 

[webcraft]

He didn't say everyone does, or must, hoist a cone.

Any approaching navigator needs to know, without any doubt, if he is dealing with a vessel under sail, under mechanical propulsion or at anchor.

IRMC

- W

 

[john_morris_uk]

So we have rounded Duart Point heading back to Easdale Sound and the wind gets up to 25-30 knots on the nose wind over tide with big lumpy seas coming down Insh sound. We've got two reefs in the main and half the genoa rolled away and our VMG is down to less than two knots. We have an hour and a half to get to the entrance to Cuan Sound or we won't get home. The only other traffic around is the Colonsay ferry heading towards Oban.

I roll the genoa away and put the engine on and begin motor-sailing hard 20 degrees off the wind. The pitching and crashing are horrendous, with green water coming over the foredeck. The next thing I do is go forward and frig about hoisting a motoring cone . . . erm, I don't think so.

Welcome to sailing in the real world.

- W

Perhaps I can describe what happens in another 'real world'.

In exactly the same position as above you get the cone out and prepare it, turn the revs right down and bear away and nip up to the foredeck to hoist the cone.

I know that many people don't bother, but we also have to remember that in the court of inquiry, saying it was a bit rough to go on deck doesn't sound very convincing.

Or consider heaving to for a few moments which makes everything dramatically better.

One runs the risk of implying that impatience to get into port is more important than complying with the IRPCS, and although people can make that call, they need to be aware of the possible consequences.

 

[sebastiannr]

Does a yacht that is motor-sailing (with cone) have the same rights of way as a yacht that is motoring? i.e. a yacht that is motor-sailing should put up the cone so that a motor boat doesn't put itself at risk by mistaking it for a boat that is sailing and so give it right of way.

Sorry, I really should know this!

 

[sailorman]

Does a yacht that is motor-sailing (with cone) have the same rights of way as a yacht that is motoring? i.e. a yacht that is motor-sailing should put up the cone so that a motor boat doesn't put itself at risk by mistaking it for a boat that is sailing and so give it right of way.

Sorry, I really should know this!

Both deemed to be motoring

 

[silver-fox]

So we have rounded Duart Point heading back to Easdale Sound and the wind gets up to 25-30 knots on the nose wind over tide with big lumpy seas coming down Insh sound. We've got two reefs in the main and half the genoa rolled away and our VMG is down to less than two knots. We have an hour and a half to get to the entrance to Cuan Sound or we won't get home. The only other traffic around is the Colonsay ferry heading towards Oban.

I roll the genoa away and put the engine on and begin motor-sailing hard 20 degrees off the wind. The pitching and crashing are horrendous, with green water coming over the foredeck. The next thing I do is go forward and frig about hoisting a motoring cone . . . erm, I don't think so.

Welcome to sailing in the real world.

- W

Unfortunately Webcraft, I have fallen into the trap of assuming that all readers of this thread can distinguish between the rules and when to apply them.

As I quite clearly stated "As individuals we either observe the rules or we don't - they are quite clear."
Douglas Bader once quipped "Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men"
That means that as and when you are the skipper under the conditions you describe,you must decide. I wouldn't presume to advise you because I firmly believe its for each skipper to make his own mind up.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Unfortunately Webcraft, I have fallen into the trap of assuming that all readers of this thread can distinguish between the rules and when to apply them.

As I quite clearly stated "As individuals we either observe the rules or we don't - they are quite clear."
Douglas Bader once quipped "Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men"
That means that as and when you are the skipper under the conditions you describe,you must decide. I wouldn't presume to advise you because I firmly believe its for each skipper to make his own mind up.

+1

"...and although people can make that call (ie not to put a cone up) , they need to be aware of the possible consequences."

 

[capnsensible]

The only conceivable reason for not showing the correct day shape whilst motor sailing is bone idleness.....

It takes me maybe 3 minutes to open the locker where its stowed complete with line, nip forward and put the ready made loop round a cleat, clip the other end loop onto a spare halyard, hoist and secure at the mast. Simple.

 

[alant]

Does a yacht that is motor-sailing (with cone) have the same rights of way as a yacht that is motoring? i.e. a yacht that is motor-sailing should put up the cone so that a motor boat doesn't put itself at risk by mistaking it for a boat that is sailing and so give it right of way.

Sorry, I really should know this!

???