Motorboat Newbie's Change Of Direction
- Thread starter londonrascal
- Start date
jimmy_the_builder
Well-Known Member
Yep. If one side isn't there it's still pretty easy - see jrudge's method. Having a remote on the bowthruster is occasionally useful when singlehanding and a neighbouring boat is missing.
markc
Well-Known Member
We have had a similar Bluetooth system this season and it's been superb - no shouting, misunderstandings and no arguments!
Bouba
Well-Known Member
No sir, honest, I’m not:nonchalance:Are you calling me fat?
londonrascal
Well-Known Member
Well some interesting replies, thanks for the heads up on the Star Brite products – will be adding these to my ever increasing shopping list of items.
As to the mooring and thrusters, and so on – I think the real difference is the larger the boat generally the more heavy, and thus the more inertia. I am used to boats of say 8,000KG – a Trader is a very different animal, but then likewise I am not used to having the benefit of ‘thrusters’ and having had boats for a period of hire which have had them, I tend to prefer not using them unless absolutely needed because you then become dependent on their use and start (in my opinion) to get lazy knowing the boats movement can be corrected and you can make allowances of errors.
Most are electric and frankly to my mind why it has taken the industry so many years generally to come up with rim drive units, and brushless fully variable drives with continuous duty operation and the like is beyond me, but they are finally here and thankfully we now have some real choice in the market. Those looking to invest in thrusters now can get a model and use such without the worry of them overheating and a thermal cut out ruining your day when you need the unit most and like with all things the cost can only reduce over time.
Of course Thrusters have filtered down form large shipping, where they are often driven by Hydraulics so I guess it makes sense and seems ‘more professional grade’ to have boats like Traders have them fitted especially as they seem to try and punch above their size as ‘mini ships’ in their look and feel to some degree.
I personally like the immediate torque you get from an electric unit, but have also been happy with hydraulic versions I have used – though it is right you have to disengage gear and ramp up the RPM in order get the full power out of the thrusters, then quickly slip the throttle to neutral, engage drive and use the engine and propeller as usual; something that catches people out and I have had an engine stall when testing to see what would happen if you suddenly try running both bow and a stern thrusters together at tick over (this mind you was a single 60hp Nanni engine also driving two Alternators)
Having been there and got the t-shirt of getting off a boat on my own, only to find it was still in ‘tick over’ still and taking me for a walk along the quay, I am not keen on being off a boat with some kind of remote control to rely on. Can you imagine if it went wrong and the boat heads off on its own only later you found out that a kid playing with their new Drone bought off of Ali-Express had frequencies that just so happened to have been shared with your high end boat controller lol.
Like everything experience helps, I will begin with some nice gentle excursions around the Marina in flat calm conditions for this also will be the first twins screw boat I have used – other than the odd time on a friends boat on the Medway when I was at the helm.
As to the mooring and thrusters, and so on – I think the real difference is the larger the boat generally the more heavy, and thus the more inertia. I am used to boats of say 8,000KG – a Trader is a very different animal, but then likewise I am not used to having the benefit of ‘thrusters’ and having had boats for a period of hire which have had them, I tend to prefer not using them unless absolutely needed because you then become dependent on their use and start (in my opinion) to get lazy knowing the boats movement can be corrected and you can make allowances of errors.
Most are electric and frankly to my mind why it has taken the industry so many years generally to come up with rim drive units, and brushless fully variable drives with continuous duty operation and the like is beyond me, but they are finally here and thankfully we now have some real choice in the market. Those looking to invest in thrusters now can get a model and use such without the worry of them overheating and a thermal cut out ruining your day when you need the unit most and like with all things the cost can only reduce over time.
Of course Thrusters have filtered down form large shipping, where they are often driven by Hydraulics so I guess it makes sense and seems ‘more professional grade’ to have boats like Traders have them fitted especially as they seem to try and punch above their size as ‘mini ships’ in their look and feel to some degree.
I personally like the immediate torque you get from an electric unit, but have also been happy with hydraulic versions I have used – though it is right you have to disengage gear and ramp up the RPM in order get the full power out of the thrusters, then quickly slip the throttle to neutral, engage drive and use the engine and propeller as usual; something that catches people out and I have had an engine stall when testing to see what would happen if you suddenly try running both bow and a stern thrusters together at tick over (this mind you was a single 60hp Nanni engine also driving two Alternators)
Having been there and got the t-shirt of getting off a boat on my own, only to find it was still in ‘tick over’ still and taking me for a walk along the quay, I am not keen on being off a boat with some kind of remote control to rely on. Can you imagine if it went wrong and the boat heads off on its own only later you found out that a kid playing with their new Drone bought off of Ali-Express had frequencies that just so happened to have been shared with your high end boat controller lol.
Like everything experience helps, I will begin with some nice gentle excursions around the Marina in flat calm conditions for this also will be the first twins screw boat I have used – other than the odd time on a friends boat on the Medway when I was at the helm.
MapisM
Well-Known Member
In fairness, when I tried the same on a T575, the engine running the hydraulic pump didn't miss a beat - as you would expect by a 12 liters Caterpillar engine, even if running at idle.
The big BUT is that the thrusters, when running together with the engine idling, became almost useless, and nowhere near man enough to move the boat sideways, as you would want when using both thrusters together (as opposed to rotating the boat on itself, which is obviously very easy with engines alone).
pks1702
Well-Known Member
Looking at the OP's Youtube videos, his previous boating experience is largely on the Norfolk Broads on Broads Cruisers with his girlfriend occasionally onboard*. So I think he (rightly) be dependent on some experienced crew.
Another question to the OP. I note you live in London. Have you considered keeping the boat in the Solent instead of Norfolk? If not, I do hope you consider extending your cruising to other parts of the country (and obviously video them).
* When she's turning the Trader 'short bursts' will be key
Glad the OP seems to have got the boat he wants, unconventional but each to their own.
It is clear to me the OP is studious in swotting up on kit etc but to me is living a life in 'theory' from a lot of his posts. Yes experience with a Broads cruiser but that is a very different animal to a large twin engine boat at sea.
Surely the most important thing would be to gain some professional training to manage a craft such as this in safe conditions. Pontoon bashing on something this different is in my view not sensible. You clearly have a few 'mates' that can manage Broads boats but this is a very different beast. You are prepared to spend large sums on upgrades which to me would be behind getting to grips with handling the new craft. Why not use the delivery trip as some of this learning and engage a professional instructor (plenty of recommendations on here) to help you passage plan and bring the vessel round to its final destination you will get a terrific amount of intense learning with something such as this. I note you are having driving lessons have you a couple of mates that are taking turns in giving you lessons..... or are you using a qualified driving instructor?
Its well and good to have the theory and this is important but nothing beats practical experience taught from someone with the skills to do this correctly. You are then practicing good habits and skills rather than your mates bad habits.
IDAMAY
Well-Known Member
MapisM - that seems really odd to me. I have no problem at all with running both thrusters to move the boat sideways with engines running at low idle. If I want a little more "umph" to either bow or stern I just stop the other one for a short period. I think the total power is about 20hp which together with the engines is certainly enough to move the boat sideways in most conditions we would expect to move in.
IDAMAY
Well-Known Member
+ 1 for the Sena SPH10s. The best accessory we have ever bought for the boat on a par with electric fold up bikes.
londonrascal
Well-Known Member
Yes I do spend perhaps an unhealthy amount of time on reading material, sites such as this, personal experiences and videos about everything from something new on the market, to how to do something on a boat. But I never rely on one source, and go for the collective point of view that if 5 people say this is how you do it, then generally that must be the correct way to do it.
Now I have no professional training, but then many others had to begin somewhere – but what I have is a wealth of experience generally when it comes to boats and boating and that must account for something. I take your reference to ‘pontoon bashing’ as unkind. My absolute first rule is never make contact with anything that may cause mine, another boat or object damage. So far I never have because I never take undue risk and always go by the mantra that a ‘good skipper should never need to show how good he is’.
I am going to do two things – I am asking those who have done this sort of thing about a passage plan, and I am going to 9ithout their knowledge) be doing my own. Then ask them to go over what I have come up with and see what they think and how such can be improved/altered. Now I understand it is such a difference scale, but when taking B.A from Lowestoft to Southwold, Great Yarmotuh to Ipswich and Great Yarmouth to Lowestoft I was fully part of the process, the planning of such, being involved with the chart work too and took part in a lot of the helming once at sea - all eager to gain this experience first hand.
Taking two river boats through dense fog down the rivers of the Norfolk Broads to Great Yarmoth in the early hours of the morning, then through the Harbour and out to sea before sunrise does not just ‘happen’ it takes a lot of skill and planning and with two boats and a bunch of people involved a lot of responsibility collectively too.
What i had no part of was to make any VHF calls because I was not a holder of a relevant licence, but I have had a bit more experience than a 'go round the block’ but I am also first to admit it is not something I do very often, so I will not just be headed off like a numpty thinking it is just a case of turning left and ending up where I want a few hours later!
I am eager to learn, and gt it right not least when you are going to be filming it all doing it all wrong leaves you open to a bunch of criticism most people that do things and make an error only have those on board to know about it, not a few thousand others eager to hit the keyboards and comment. That said, I have been lucky enough to be part of some real special occasions, like this from last summer with the Royal Navy and MTB 102:
Now I have no professional training, but then many others had to begin somewhere – but what I have is a wealth of experience generally when it comes to boats and boating and that must account for something. I take your reference to ‘pontoon bashing’ as unkind. My absolute first rule is never make contact with anything that may cause mine, another boat or object damage. So far I never have because I never take undue risk and always go by the mantra that a ‘good skipper should never need to show how good he is’.
I am going to do two things – I am asking those who have done this sort of thing about a passage plan, and I am going to 9ithout their knowledge) be doing my own. Then ask them to go over what I have come up with and see what they think and how such can be improved/altered. Now I understand it is such a difference scale, but when taking B.A from Lowestoft to Southwold, Great Yarmotuh to Ipswich and Great Yarmouth to Lowestoft I was fully part of the process, the planning of such, being involved with the chart work too and took part in a lot of the helming once at sea - all eager to gain this experience first hand.
Taking two river boats through dense fog down the rivers of the Norfolk Broads to Great Yarmoth in the early hours of the morning, then through the Harbour and out to sea before sunrise does not just ‘happen’ it takes a lot of skill and planning and with two boats and a bunch of people involved a lot of responsibility collectively too.
What i had no part of was to make any VHF calls because I was not a holder of a relevant licence, but I have had a bit more experience than a 'go round the block’ but I am also first to admit it is not something I do very often, so I will not just be headed off like a numpty thinking it is just a case of turning left and ending up where I want a few hours later!
I am eager to learn, and gt it right not least when you are going to be filming it all doing it all wrong leaves you open to a bunch of criticism most people that do things and make an error only have those on board to know about it, not a few thousand others eager to hit the keyboards and comment. That said, I have been lucky enough to be part of some real special occasions, like this from last summer with the Royal Navy and MTB 102:
MapisM
Well-Known Member
Well, my experience is restricted to two specific 575, almost sisterships, sharing the same engines and most other equipment, but one with hydraulic and the other with electric thrusters.
Btw, both equipped with hydraulic Wesmar stabs and hydraulic system, so you might have thought that going hydraulic also for thrusters would have been the most logical choice.
But as I said, one of those owners purposedly specced electric thrusters (though more powerful than the standard ones, IIRC) based on his previous experiences.
And all I can say is that having compared the effectiveness of both, the electric was stronger in general, and even more so when using both thrusters in parallel.
By chance, have you got also zero speed stabs with compensation tank, in your boat?
I suppose that this could help also with regard to thrusters power...
petem
Well-Known Member
Pontoon Bashing is a euphemism. With a proper instructor no pontoons are actually touched let alone bashed.
Don't worry about VHF, trust me that is the least of your challenges!
Don't worry about VHF, trust me that is the least of your challenges!
pks1702
Well-Known Member
Thank you Pete - sort of sums up my point.
As my old granny used to say "none as blind as those that cannot see and none as deaf as those that cannot hear" - Hope all works out for the OP he clearly has his own thoughts; on an interactive forum others might have an alternative view
Swordfish
Well-Known Member
Very well said P , I hope you are all well, Kind regards.
londonrascal
Well-Known Member
Don't worry about VHF, trust me that is the least of your challenges!
By jove, I think I've cracked it! These challenges - this is the fuel I need for my fire. The more complex, the greater and larger the more my passion.
There is a fine line between confidence in one's self and being cocky, but I can assure you that I am not one to be cocky but neither am I to do anything by halves or by the book. I remember a friend told me a few years ago that "being at sea is consistently terrifying" and those words have stuck with me - how do you remove as much of the 'terrifying' as you can.
If I may, let me take people to where this journey began: prior to me turning up in 2011 on the Norfolk Broads, it had been much the same - Forums which were full of debate, tales of peoples holidays and the advice shared between boaters. Over on You Tube there was the odd family video which had been posted, often for nothing more than a way to share their holiday with extended friends but was now public with a few hundred views. I wanted to bring something new and more real and set about filming videos, editing on the fly and posting them same day - then reacting to the comments people had left and the Forum's and You Tube and using them to 'steer' the following days content.
By late 2011 with Live Streaming in its infancy, I took on a challenge to stream a river cruise - with multiple cameras and audio feeds. The only sort of content like this previously shared was through great expense and with the help of large broadcasters - this was an individual taking things on. Three (the phone network) provided me with free data and Logitech gave me some webcams - it was then up to me to get the thing working on a river boat - and it worked. It was then I met the owners of Broad Ambition, a boat I had never heard the name of and knew nothing about but who had been provisionally accepted to form part of the Historic Fleet in the Queens Diamond Jubilee 'Thames Pageant' and I was asked could I live stream from the boat during the event? But just to add to the challenge, I could not be on the boat at the time so it had to all happen remotely - audio, camera switching the lot! I also had to set up a website to have the content streamed on, and share this with the wider world oh and other than the data costs I had to fund the whole lot. I accepted the challenge.
The resulting live stream was on the front page of the Usteam website as traffic grew on the day and was It trumped the BBC's content - this was live from a boat, the rain, the crowd shouting, hell, even the Guardian newspaper's Royal Correspondent onboard was lost for words. Despite losing two cameras to the appalling weather conditions, having a real time feed with a live chat room was something special - this before Facebook or You Tube had got their fingers in the live streaming pie.
After this, I moved away from the live video and concentrated on You Tube - I was being offered boats to take out to review and film for free, boatyards began getting in touch but I always refused the freebies and would pay my way and along with opting out of You Tube's advert/partner program to control the music I could have in the videos and introduce my audience to. Some believed I got something for this financially, actually it was costing me thousands of pounds, but I was in it to promote an area and activity I loved.
You only need to see now the amount of videos posted each month on You Tube last year as an example of content and everyone from teens to chaps on their own doing their own 'daily Vlogs' and then there are the Facebook Groups that have grown to number many thousands of active and eager members with people keen to share their experiences and holidays, photos and videos on. Then the amount of people who have booked holidays - just because they have seen my videos. I have people from as far as Florida write to me thanking me for the simple and original way in which I bring people along, as it happens, with me on the boat and for me, this is what it really is about.
Now the stage has grown to the Sea's. It is time to open up everything - from the buying process, the costs, the engineering, the learning and voyages. This is not a 'how to' DIY series, neither is it a slick video series of bluewater Sailors and their adventures or people travelling the worlds Seas as long as they are in sun kissed locations, with a boat full of product placement they call home.
This is about going head long in to something new, it is about tipping the whole process up on end - and then shaking out the contents, from the buying process, the details of how it all actually works, the real life honest negotiations on prices, the learning (and likely mistakes) I will make. It is for those new to this world, or looking to get involved to show how it really is and blowing the lid off what is often seen as an elitist activity and lifestyle to typical Joe's out there. This is boating. As. It. Happens. It might not be the right way, it is however a way and it will be laid bare in high definition.
Now, where were you when you bought your first boat? Who did you have there to help out, advise you and literally learn the ropes from - maybe your father, maybe you were part of a sailing school, maybe you had friends who you'd been boating with and learnt from and decided to 'take the plunge' and get your own. Think back experienced boater to those times, perhaps many years ago now to how it was and how it felt.
Now imagine doing it - but alone. Imagine beginning your journey not with a smaller boat but with a 23 tonnes and almost 55 foot in length then sharing it openly with your peers and finally for good measure, filming it all for people to pull to bits once public. Would you have still done it?
VHF therefore is a very real challenge because it forms just part of the enormous process I have embarked on because when someone make an error in transmitting who really knows? If I do I will no doubt have 101 people reminding me I did it wrong. But the journey begins this Friday and I am sure even those frowning at me and my ways will be curious to see how things unfold in the coming months.
By jove, I think I've cracked it! These challenges - this is the fuel I need for my fire. The more complex, the greater and larger the more my passion.
There is a fine line between confidence in one's self and being cocky, but I can assure you that I am not one to be cocky but neither am I to do anything by halves or by the book. I remember a friend told me a few years ago that "being at sea is consistently terrifying" and those words have stuck with me - how do you remove as much of the 'terrifying' as you can.
If I may, let me take people to where this journey began: prior to me turning up in 2011 on the Norfolk Broads, it had been much the same - Forums which were full of debate, tales of peoples holidays and the advice shared between boaters. Over on You Tube there was the odd family video which had been posted, often for nothing more than a way to share their holiday with extended friends but was now public with a few hundred views. I wanted to bring something new and more real and set about filming videos, editing on the fly and posting them same day - then reacting to the comments people had left and the Forum's and You Tube and using them to 'steer' the following days content.
By late 2011 with Live Streaming in its infancy, I took on a challenge to stream a river cruise - with multiple cameras and audio feeds. The only sort of content like this previously shared was through great expense and with the help of large broadcasters - this was an individual taking things on. Three (the phone network) provided me with free data and Logitech gave me some webcams - it was then up to me to get the thing working on a river boat - and it worked. It was then I met the owners of Broad Ambition, a boat I had never heard the name of and knew nothing about but who had been provisionally accepted to form part of the Historic Fleet in the Queens Diamond Jubilee 'Thames Pageant' and I was asked could I live stream from the boat during the event? But just to add to the challenge, I could not be on the boat at the time so it had to all happen remotely - audio, camera switching the lot! I also had to set up a website to have the content streamed on, and share this with the wider world oh and other than the data costs I had to fund the whole lot. I accepted the challenge.
The resulting live stream was on the front page of the Usteam website as traffic grew on the day and was It trumped the BBC's content - this was live from a boat, the rain, the crowd shouting, hell, even the Guardian newspaper's Royal Correspondent onboard was lost for words. Despite losing two cameras to the appalling weather conditions, having a real time feed with a live chat room was something special - this before Facebook or You Tube had got their fingers in the live streaming pie.
After this, I moved away from the live video and concentrated on You Tube - I was being offered boats to take out to review and film for free, boatyards began getting in touch but I always refused the freebies and would pay my way and along with opting out of You Tube's advert/partner program to control the music I could have in the videos and introduce my audience to. Some believed I got something for this financially, actually it was costing me thousands of pounds, but I was in it to promote an area and activity I loved.
You only need to see now the amount of videos posted each month on You Tube last year as an example of content and everyone from teens to chaps on their own doing their own 'daily Vlogs' and then there are the Facebook Groups that have grown to number many thousands of active and eager members with people keen to share their experiences and holidays, photos and videos on. Then the amount of people who have booked holidays - just because they have seen my videos. I have people from as far as Florida write to me thanking me for the simple and original way in which I bring people along, as it happens, with me on the boat and for me, this is what it really is about.
Now the stage has grown to the Sea's. It is time to open up everything - from the buying process, the costs, the engineering, the learning and voyages. This is not a 'how to' DIY series, neither is it a slick video series of bluewater Sailors and their adventures or people travelling the worlds Seas as long as they are in sun kissed locations, with a boat full of product placement they call home.
This is about going head long in to something new, it is about tipping the whole process up on end - and then shaking out the contents, from the buying process, the details of how it all actually works, the real life honest negotiations on prices, the learning (and likely mistakes) I will make. It is for those new to this world, or looking to get involved to show how it really is and blowing the lid off what is often seen as an elitist activity and lifestyle to typical Joe's out there. This is boating. As. It. Happens. It might not be the right way, it is however a way and it will be laid bare in high definition.
Now, where were you when you bought your first boat? Who did you have there to help out, advise you and literally learn the ropes from - maybe your father, maybe you were part of a sailing school, maybe you had friends who you'd been boating with and learnt from and decided to 'take the plunge' and get your own. Think back experienced boater to those times, perhaps many years ago now to how it was and how it felt.
Now imagine doing it - but alone. Imagine beginning your journey not with a smaller boat but with a 23 tonnes and almost 55 foot in length then sharing it openly with your peers and finally for good measure, filming it all for people to pull to bits once public. Would you have still done it?
VHF therefore is a very real challenge because it forms just part of the enormous process I have embarked on because when someone make an error in transmitting who really knows? If I do I will no doubt have 101 people reminding me I did it wrong. But the journey begins this Friday and I am sure even those frowning at me and my ways will be curious to see how things unfold in the coming months.
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MrB
Well-Known Member
Dude, don't do such big posts......half a paragraph in and interest is lost lol !
:encouragement:
:encouragement:londonrascal
Well-Known Member
Dude, don't do such big posts......half a paragraph in and interest is lost lol !
Remember when you owned a Nokia 3310? Well I was the contact who would send a text and then have ..> at the end and <.. at the start of the next (5) texts. I don't do short.
Remember when you owned a Nokia 3310? Well I was the contact who would send a text and then have ..> at the end and <.. at the start of the next (5) texts. I don't do short.
MrB
Well-Known Member
Obvs lol. Good luck with the boat mate, keep your girlfriend? away from close quarters maneuvering for a while.......i did find her turning the boat around on the broards hilarious (in a cute way) but she did ok. Keep having fun, it's what it's about. :encouragement:
jfm
Well-Known Member
Mapism, what you describe isn't a feature of hydraulic thrusters; it's a feature of an undersized pto pump or pumps.
petem
Well-Known Member
+1000, especially the keep your girlfriend bit!
