Motorboat Newbie's Change Of Direction

[Nigelpickin]

No not much difference in weight but one is P and the other SD so how/why would you compare....in the 535 you won’t just be able to skip up on to the plane and zip across atop the sea state.

At D speed the Sq55 in a messy quarter or beam sea will suffer the same, you just wouldn’t do it....

And if you’re too young to remember Weebles, you’re too young for a Trader

 

[sorabain]

This also raises the point that anyone with a Trader without stabilisers is in possible danger should they get caught out in a bad sea, and further more effects prices so having such a system fitted might increase the chance to re-sell later a later date and make an all round safer boat.

Sorry I didn't mean to imply that. I was thinking about it the other day while daydreaming about owning a bigger (slower) boat one day where I might do something like cross a large body of water without stopping and mess up the weather predictions and find myself in an ugly force 10. Made me wonder if stabs would make things a bit easier, or if they have characteristics that might actually make things worse in storm-force conditions. I'm rusty on my physics, and gyros can be a bit counter-intuitive.

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

I recall someone on here did a major refit of their new-to-them boat and replaced / renewed the stabilisers, moving the fins forward (I think) in the process. So a PM to that forumite would maybe give you an idea of the costs. I've drawn a blank looking for it. Someone may remember.

A seakeeper gyro stab for that size boat is listed on their website at $70k plus fitting assuming you have room... might be better than fins for a river boat. Also works when stationary.
https://www.seakeeper.com/seakeeper_products/seakeeper-9/

It was user Silverdee, in an Aquastar 74. He fitted Sleipner vector fins iirc.

 

[londonrascal]

No not much difference in weight but one is P and the other SD so how/why would you compare....in the 535 you won’t just be able to skip up on to the plane and zip across atop the sea state.

At D speed the Sq55 in a messy quarter or beam sea will suffer the same, you just wouldn’t do it....

And if you’re too young to remember Weebles, you’re too young for a Trader


That I think covers what I was wondering. I doubt you can compare a planning boat with a semi-displacement, but you’ve confirmed what I have always understood – planning boats at displacement speeds are not as good.

This is why I was ‘won over’ to semi-displacement boats. Reading up on this, many tend to favour their design as actually handling rougher seas better than a planning boat can, and that a planning boat at displacement speed does not ride too well itself. Since I am not seeking to go anywhere fast the planning boats speed and power has not taken me.

Since having a trip out on someone’s large planning boat, we were all up top on the fly bridge and the scene was one full of smiles, I did not quite get the enjoyment of the wind rushing past you at 30MPH with your hair all over the place, holding on to your drink with your left hand but at the same time bracing myself into the seat and holding on to the side rail by the seat with myr right hand. Then suddenly oooohhhhh into a turn we go, pitch over weeee..woooo they shouted then straighten back up but my glasses had slipped down but no hands free to adjust then people shouting something drowned out in the noise of the wind then I see what they were saying as we purposely sought the wash of another boat to ‘play with’ which just resulted in a bunch of sea spray coming over us duly ruined my drink and covered me with water. They laughed I realised why I make a Sloth seem energetic.



It is that 'old before my time' general lazy way that I find fits perfectly with the Trader's traditional interior. As to those outside lines? As a man who is to be found buying things from George at ASDA how things look on the outside does not tend to worry me too much.

So in conclusion you’d not take a planning 55 footer into a messy beam or quarter sea at displacement speed and while more power would greatly help matters you can only do so much, then slamming may be an issue. Perhaps it about general choice as far as what you will use the boat for, where you intend to use it and I think often it could be said the boat is better in adverse weather conditions and holds up to them better than crew. Since 90% of the time a boat I own will be spent tied up to a berth, I am not sure I need to worry too much about rough weather for the time being.

Maybe, what I really need is just need Shetland 4+2. :ambivalence:

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

planning boats at displacement speeds are not as good

Just a small point, but fyi the hull form you're referring to here is 'planing', not 'planning'.

I realised why I make a Sloth seem energetic

If this is the case, are you sure that buying a c.20 year old 50-60 foot motor boat is the right choice for you? There is a *lot* of maintenance with older motor boats, you won't ever get to the end of the jobs list...

 

[londonrascal]

If this is the case, are you sure that buying a c.20 year old 50-60 foot motor boat is the right choice for you? There is a *lot* of maintenance with older motor boats, you won't ever get to the end of the jobs list...


Can you give some examples as to what I may be letting myself in for then?

 

[Sticky Fingers]

It was user Silverdee, in an Aquastar 74. He fitted Sleipner vector fins iirc.

Found it, that's right. Wow that Aquastar is gorgeous.

 

[Piers]

If this is the case, are you sure that buying a c.20 year old 50-60 foot motor boat is the right choice for you? There is a *lot* of maintenance with older motor boats, you won't ever get to the end of the jobs list...


Can you give some examples as to what I may be letting myself in for then?

Put it this way. On Play d'eau, the annual costs have averaged over the last 14 years, at £39,947. bear in mind I do all the servicing apart from one or two very specialist repairs.

 

[Nigelpickin]

Put it this way. On Play d'eau, the annual costs have averaged over the last 14 years, at £39,947. bear in mind I do all the servicing apart from one or two very specialist repairs.

I was going to pick you up for not adding depreciation - but remembered that you’re talking about a Fleming!

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

If this is the case, are you sure that buying a c.20 year old 50-60 foot motor boat is the right choice for you? There is a *lot* of maintenance with older motor boats, you won't ever get to the end of the jobs list...


Can you give some examples as to what I may be letting myself in for then?

Well, this week (on my 12 year old boat) I've been dealing with canopy repairs, intermittent fault on my anchor light, and everyone's favourite, a blocked toilet, which I dismantled only to find that the actual issue is a blockage in the pipe from the toilet to the holding tank. Nice. And that's just this week..

There are always jobs to do on the boat, some are maintenance, some are repairs, and some are upgrades. But it is a pretty relentless task - and for many owners, that's part of the fun (blocked toilets notwithstanding).

 

[Piers]

I was going to pick you up for not adding depreciation - but remembered that you’re talking about a Fleming!

Sadly, even Flemings are subject to depreciation, but thankfully nowhere near other semi-displacement trawlers!

 

[petem]

Put it this way. On Play d'eau, the annual costs have averaged over the last 14 years, at £39,947. bear in mind I do all the servicing apart from one or two very specialist repairs.

Yep, and that's a boat you've had since new and therefore been meticulously maintained. Heaven knows what the costs would be had you neglected it for a few years.

 

[londonrascal]

Thankfully I don't need to worry about depreciation but it is interesting seeing how some boats hold their value longer than others - even smaller sailing boats between brands might which sometimes is not just about quality but design and fitting in with what that sort of sailor seeks.

So the large the boat, it is nothing too out of the ordinary really, just perhaps doubled up costs for example, with the engines, you’ve got a pair to look after not just one, pair of rudders, pair of propellers etc, the real pain in the backside I can see is the damn Generator - they just do not seem to behave and last and I am sure it is because people want them insulated to sound and this shortens the life between problems manifesting themselves with heat not being able to be disbursed. As an aside, this afternoon I have been looking at watercooled alternators, like the sort found on BMW's these days.

I know all about new sanitation hose – did this earlier in the year and needed a new Macerator unit since the motor was drawing incredible Amps (found that motor had literally worn out and burn out) this new assembly cost as much as a new toilet, but since Vetus don’t make the toilet we have anymore and the sink unit and fixtures had been built to fit around the current toilet design, we needed to keep the current toilet and spend out for the new macerator unit. Then move and cut sanitation hoses to make the run to holding tank more ‘streamlined’.

Around this time began to question how good Vetus parts are – replaced all the 12v fans in roof vents with higher volume, quieter better quality fans than move more air. Also noticed the instruments have bezels,. They are chrome but no they are not actually in fact are plastic coated in ‘fake chrome’ this wears off showing the white plastic under. Vetus replaced under guarantee thankfully but their instruments are not cheap so why scrimp on plastic bezels sprayed with chrome effect paint?

Things don’t tend to stop being needed – only last week I have ordered 2x 120w semi flexible solar panels for the after coachhouse roof to replace the single glass 70w panel and while at it renew the wiring, a new MPPT controller and separate remote monitor/screen, new stereo system that can stream Spotify, as well as all the usual means – I find it interesting such units still come with CD players.

The new head unit is DAB so a new DAB aerial will be needed, remove old FM one that currently attaches to solar panel. Stainless steel LED courtesy lights from Timage – they worked out a lot of money, but they’re not much better quality so far as I can see than decking lights I have seen for gardens. They to be flush mounted into cabin sides and provide deck lighting. Two polished aluminium ‘nose trim’ pieces to protect the newly laid Dek-King around the steps at the stern into the aft well.

 

[petem]

Well, this week (on my 12 year old boat) I've been dealing with canopy repairs, intermittent fault on my anchor light, and everyone's favourite, a blocked toilet, which I dismantled only to find that the actual issue is a blockage in the pipe from the toilet to the holding tank. Nice. And that's just this week..

There are always jobs to do on the boat, some are maintenance, some are repairs, and some are upgrades. But it is a pretty relentless task - and for many owners, that's part of the fun (blocked toilets notwithstanding).

Indeed. It's easy to say you can pay someone to do the work but that can be more hassle than it's worth, not to mention the expense.

 

[sorabain]

Put it this way. On Play d'eau, the annual costs have averaged over the last 14 years, at £39,947. bear in mind I do all the servicing apart from one or two very specialist repairs.

and the Nobel Prize for Man Maths goes to...

 

[BruceK]

and the Nobel Prize for Man Maths goes to...

Nope, no ermm no. I do believe that particular calling is rather hotly contested here

 

[Piers]

Nope, no ermm no. I do believe that particular calling is rather hotly contested here

...and that exclude fuel and berthing fees when on hols.

 

[petem]

...and that exclude fuel and berthing fees when on hols.

You know what they say Piers - "you can't take it with you"!

And I suspect that boat isn't the worst investment you ever made but perhaps one of the best.

 

[londonrascal]

Just been looking http://www.playdeau.com/ - What a craft and much reading to be had of your travels on her. I also had a double take that it costs so much each year to keep her to this standard when doing so much yourself. Seeing the results mind you speaks for itself.

 

[Piers]

Just been looking http://www.playdeau.com/ - What a craft and much reading to be had of your travels on her. I also had a double take that it costs so much each year to keep her to this standard when doing so much yourself. Seeing the results mind you speaks for itself.

We've kept accurate records of everything we've ever had to go with Play d'eau.

At the moment, the Tech Log shows there's only one outstanding fault, and that's a short length of rope light. Finding 3/8" incandescent yellow has been a nightmare since LED is the new fashion but doesn't look anywhere near as good. After almost two years of 'on and off' searching, I've finally found a place in the USA which still makes this. To make sure we are OK into the future, I'm ordering a 200' roll so there's plenty in case more fails in the future.

Yes, we keep her sparkling clean and polished, but as the advert goes, 'she's worth it!'