MOST ECONOMICAL WAY TO GET A NEW RIB FROM UK OUT TO SPAIN?

[John100156]

I have posted something similar responding to a live thread on the Livaboard Forum. Ignoring if and when we actually can get out UK to Spain:

What is the current situation (importing/VAT) if I wanted to take a new RIB Tender out via ferry on a trailer to ES, as a UK resident, for a short holiday, previously having bought the RIB in the UK paying VAT. Could I just say I intend to bring it back and might have to include it on my return ferry ticket? I wonder what would happen if it subsequently fell off the back of the trailer whilst out there, if you get my drift?????? Or I buy an old piece of junk for next to nothing to sit on the trailer. I wonder as a tourist if the HIN would be recorded.

I want to buy a new RIB (~£10k) in UK around March/April, I could buy in ES or even import tax free from US and pay ES imports/Taxes, I have no idea at the moment which might be best so exploring options...

 

[Clancy Moped]

You could look at buying it from France avoiding the import tax???

 

[John100156]

May be worth considering: 20% VAT in UK, 21% IVA in ES, what's the equivalent in FR?

 

[Clancy Moped]

May be worth considering: 20% VAT in UK, 21% IVA in ES, what's the equivalent in FR?

It's called TVA, on the whole I found French chandlers quite a bit cheaper than Spanish.

 

[jrudge]

Nothing will happen unless you get caught - like most things in life.

Will you get caught ? Maybe maybe not. But tax evasion is a criminal offence and I would rather not deal with the Spanish legal system

 

[DavidJ]

There must be a way of buying in the UK including VAT and then claiming the VAT back when you export it.
Bit like if your not British you can do your shopping at Harrods and claim the VAT back at the airport.

I guess you might arouse some interest when crossing the French/Spanish border or to be more accurate the policed toll station before the border.

 

[jrudge]

If it is new then there is a specific boat export scheme. However if you keep it in the eu and remove it to anywhere other than the Uk every 18 months it is tax free for life. That assumes the op is a uk resident which I believe he is

 

[[70521]]

I want to buy a new RIB (~£10k) in UK around March/April, I could buy in ES or even import tax free from US and pay ES imports/Taxes, I have no idea at the moment which might be best so exploring options...

Given the total confusion regarding boats and VAT at the moment I have asked my MP for some clarification. I've had an acknowledgment and he has passed my email onto HMRC. I would suggest that everybody emails/writes to their MP with the same question.

If I get anything sensible back from HMRC I'll let you know.

 

[jrudge]

I don’t believe there is any confusion. As long as you export it you can have it vat free. You can then keep in the the eu under temp importation for 18 months as a non eu resident.

If you bring it back to the uk as a uk resident you are immediately liable for vat based on current market value ( which will be less than you paid as it is now used )

 

[John100156]

Some useful information and comments above many thanks.

The RIB will be t/t and sit on the back of my boat (which has T2L EU goods Status and is UK VAT Paid). Quite like the idea of VAT Exempt importing the RIB to ES running it out of EU waters every 18m or so, but would/could this be policed? Is it likely once its on the back as a tender this would be questioned? What are the implications for the main vessel, which sat in EU waters on 31 Dec 2020 running into say Gib every 18m. I was not the original owner that brought the boat from UK via FR to ES, but instead purchased her whilst sat in the ES.

Seen various threads suggesting Gibraltar and even where the EU boundary might be, for instance are there international waters between say Sant Carles and Mallorca, which means a run over to Mallorca from SC we are leaving and re-entering the EU (I don't expect that's quite correct).

Lots of confusion at this time and likely to be an issue as rules are interpreted, one way or another, by various ES officials in ports for many months to come...!

 

[John100156]

Just re-read #7 where Jeremy said: "and remove it to anywhere other than the Uk every 18 months" now noted.

 

[jrudge]

There is honestly nil confusion.

None eu residents have had non vat paid boats in the med for decades. We are now non eu. The rules are well established. The only thing you must not do is bring it to the uk.

 

[DavidJ]

......but if you are a non eu resident and have your new boat (no VAT paid) delivered to the EU then surely you are due to pay IVA or similar to someone in the EU

 

[John100156]

....None eu residents have had non vat paid boats in the med for decades. We are now non eu. The rules are well established. The only thing you must not do is bring it to the uk.

Yes I see, so what's the best/most economical route to buying a new RIB in your opinion? I intend just to keep my boat in the Med, where it would be sold should I chose to do so at a later date?

1) Purchase in ES and just pay IVA and just get it delivered to the marina?

2) Purchase outside EU (UK or other) VAT free and import into ES?

3) Its unlikely I would take the RIB out of ES waters every 18m just to retain VAT free status, but I could consider running up to FR perhaps, would this reset the clock?

4) The RIB (and we are only taking about £10-15k max), would I suspect devalue after 18m, so would this then be assessed for import duty/IVA at the reduced value if imported into ES after 18m.?

I do absolutely want to ensure I am doing everything legitimately, just wishing to do so at the most economical cost of course.

I also am a great believer in supporting the local ES Business economy, so if anyone knows a good RIB boat sales site on mainland Spain, that too might be useful.

Many thanks for all comments so far.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

Yes I see, so what's the best/most economical route to buying a new RIB in your opinion? I intend just to keep my boat in the Med, where it would be sold should I chose to do so at a later date?

1) Purchase in ES and just pay IVA and just get it delivered to the marina?

2) Purchase outside EU (UK or other) VAT free and import into ES?

3) Its unlikely I would take the RIB out of ES waters every 18m just to retain VAT free status, but I could consider running up to FR perhaps, would this reset the clock?

4) The RIB (and we are only taking about £10-15k max), would I suspect devalue after 18m, so would this then be assessed for import duty/IVA at the reduced value if imported into ES after 18m.?

I do absolutely want to ensure I am doing everything legitimately, just wishing to do so at the most economical cost of course.

I also am a great believer in supporting the local ES Business economy, so if anyone knows a good RIB boat sales site on mainland Spain, that too might be useful.

Many thanks for all comments so far.

Have a look here ...

H&V Yachting manage customs and tax compliance Whats new detail

I had a yacht in Croatia under TA for a few years, and the tender just needed "Tender To ...." with the mothership name and no-one batted an eyelid when we checked in/out through customs. Our tender/motor combo was only worth a few grand though.

"Tender To" and not permanently towed or run as a chase boat and you should be fine - it's part of the main boats inventory.

 

[John100156]

Noted that was my intention, I referred to t/t in #10 - many thanks for your link.

 

[Seastoke]

Yes I see, so what's the best/most economical route to buying a new RIB in your opinion? I intend just to keep my boat in the Med, where it would be sold should I chose to do so at a later date?

1) Purchase in ES and just pay IVA and just get it delivered to the marina?

2) Purchase outside EU (UK or other) VAT free and import into ES?

3) Its unlikely I would take the RIB out of ES waters every 18m just to retain VAT free status, but I could consider running up to FR perhaps, would this reset the clock?

4) The RIB (and we are only taking about £10-15k max), would I suspect devalue after 18m, so would this then be assessed for import duty/IVA at the reduced value if imported into ES after 18m.?

I do absolutely want to ensure I am doing everything legitimately, just wishing to do so at the most economical cost of course.

I also am a great believer in supporting the local ES Business economy, so if anyone knows a good RIB boat sales site on mainland Spain, that too might be useful.

Many thanks for all comments so far.

Well john your opening post was anything but legitimate. # if you know what I mean.

 

[John100156]

Yes, I do see what you mean, but that was clearly intended as a hypothetical scenario "could I say", "what would happen if" so to be clear, I am just trying to tease out what might be possible and what is indeed the most legitimate and as important (to me) the most economical way to achieve my objective!

 

[Hurricane]

Yes I see, so what's the best/most economical route to buying a new RIB in your opinion? I intend just to keep my boat in the Med, where it would be sold should I chose to do so at a later date?

1) Purchase in ES and just pay IVA and just get it delivered to the marina?

2) Purchase outside EU (UK or other) VAT free and import into ES?

3) Its unlikely I would take the RIB out of ES waters every 18m just to retain VAT free status, but I could consider running up to FR perhaps, would this reset the clock?

4) The RIB (and we are only taking about £10-15k max), would I suspect devalue after 18m, so would this then be assessed for import duty/IVA at the reduced value if imported into ES after 18m.?

I do absolutely want to ensure I am doing everything legitimately, just wishing to do so at the most economical cost of course.

I also am a great believer in supporting the local ES Business economy, so if anyone knows a good RIB boat sales site on mainland Spain, that too might be useful.

Many thanks for all comments so far.

I think that the big problem with most of these ideas is getting the supplier to supply VAT free.

Recently, I've been reading lots of stuff about export and import.
And, I think I read somewhere that, it is now not possible for a (non UK) visitor (as he exits the UK) to reclaim VAT they paid when they bought the goods. In the past, it was possible.
I think I have also read that any goods supplied in the UK to a non VAT registered individual must have VAT applied.
The only way I can see to avoid paying UK VAT is for the VAT registered company supplying the goods to actually export the goods themselves.
So, exporting a boat EX VAT to the Channel Islands or Gibraltar can only be carried out by the company supplying the boat.
Remember, it is the responsibility of the company supplying the boat to account for the VAT and they would be taking a risk if they didn't charge VAT or provide proof that it has been exported.

An interesting twist on this would be to get the company supplying the boat to supply it into a European address.
I can see that it would be easy for the company supplying the boat to claim that it had been exported thus not charging UK VAT.
But when it arrives at the European address, would it trigger a VAT payment?
I suspect it would.
Legally, as a UK citizen, you should be able to claim the 18 month TA rules but I wonder if you would actually be able to do so.
The 18 month TA rules are really only there to allow movement of goods through Europe.
They are not there to avoid paying VAT.

All IMHO

 

[superchip]

I think that the big problem with most of these ideas is getting the supplier to supply VAT free.

Recently, I've been reading lots of stuff about export and import.
And, I think I read somewhere that, it is now not possible for a (non UK) visitor (as he exits the UK) to reclaim VAT they paid when they bought the goods. In the past, it was possible.
I think I have also read that any goods supplied in the UK to a non VAT registered individual must have VAT applied.
The only way I can see to avoid paying UK VAT is for the VAT registered company supplying the goods to actually export the goods themselves.
So, exporting a boat EX VAT to the Channel Islands or Gibraltar can only be carried out by the company supplying the boat.
Remember, it is the responsibility of the company supplying the boat to account for the VAT and they would be taking a risk if they didn't charge VAT or provide proof that it has been exported.

An interesting twist on this would be to get the company supplying the boat to supply it into a European address.
I can see that it would be easy for the company supplying the boat to claim that it had been exported thus not charging UK VAT.
But when it arrives at the European address, would it trigger a VAT payment?
I suspect it would.
Legally, as a UK citizen, you should be able to claim the 18 month TA rules but I wonder if you would actually be able to do so.
The 18 month TA rules are really only there to allow movement of goods through Europe.
They are not there to avoid paying VAT.

All IMHO