more spinnaker questions

[Fergus]

I've come reluctantly to the conclusion that unless I have a full beefcake crew I'll have to snuff the sail when gybing. The pole is 8' long and has to go around/inside the babystay. The downhaul is inside the stay and the uphaul is outside it so I have to disconnect the downhaul when gybing and reconnect to stop it chafing against the stay unless I'm not thinking straight? What do I use the jockey pole for and does it get connected to the stays?

Thanks!

 

[fireball]

Eck ... I'd snuff it!! At least you get time for a beer/cuppa/glass of something then!

 

[flaming]

I've come reluctantly to the conclusion that unless I have a full beefcake crew I'll have to snuff the sail when gybing. The pole is 8' long and has to go around/inside the babystay. The downhaul is inside the stay and the uphaul is outside it so I have to disconnect the downhaul when gybing and reconnect to stop it chafing against the stay unless I'm not thinking straight? What do I use the jockey pole for and does it get connected to the stays?

Thanks!

Blimey.

I'd suggest that even with a full crew that's starting to sound like a two pole setup. Unless you rig a quick release to be able to disconect the baby stay when going down wind?

A jockey pole is to help minimise the loads on the guy and the compression loading in the pole when tight reaching, as it holds the guy out, about level with the mast, to increase the angle between pole and guy. As to what to attach it to, it'll vary from boat to boat. Not liking the sound of connecting it to the stays though.

 

[pcranness]

I agree with Flaming, and having raced a boat with a babystay and a jockey pole. If you have a babystay which is permanently attached you're going to need two poles for gybing, or drop the kite (spinnaker) re-rig the pole, pack the kite and re-launch.

As far as the Jockey pole is concerned generally the go at 90 degress to the mast and a sail tie round the nearest shroud, if the kite and loads are small enough. Alternatively if you have a ‘holey’ toe rail, you can use a couple of sail ties, one diagonally forward, and one aft.

 

[jason -and the arguenauts]

Why not re-route the downhall so that it comes up from the same deck fitting as the baby stay and is therefore outside the stay. Might help a bit.

personally whilst I am learning to live with the spinny whilst racing I am seriously thinking of the Selden bowsprit and a gennaker whilst cruising with swmbo. It takes the co-ordinated actions of 4 men (2 on foredeck) to fly / jibe my spinnaker and then it's usually chaos

 

[andygc]

What do I use the jockey pole for and does it get connected to the stays?

A jockey pole should attach to the side of the mast and be long enough to keep the guy clear of the shrouds. You can stop it moving fore and aft as you adjust the guy by tying it to a shroud - I think that is what pcranness was describing.

 

[Quandary]

Selden bowsprits

I would try out a gennaker before spending a lot on this gear, I have one of these extendable sprits ( my wife had vetoed two handed spinnaker flying unless she is not aboard) with the no.1 North gennaker (the deepest cut of the three they offer for my boat). Even full cut it is of limited value for running and has little to offer over a poled out genny. It is a lovely broad reaching sail and can be carried on a fetch but only in light winds, above 12 kts true it is hard work for two. It is a big brute so it also questionable if it is any easier to gybe.I would persist with your spinnaker as they really just need sorting out and practice and are a far more useful sail. I am not surprised that dip pole gybing turns out to be difficult two handed.
If you are not racing why not continue to use your snuffer (cue Flaming)

 

[jason -and the arguenauts]

Thanks Quandary. I'm looking for a set up that will work between apparent wind angles of maybe 90 deg to 170. Does your North set up do this? If it doesnt do you think its the cut of the sail? Do you still pole out the gennaker?

The attraction is that as age has taken hold and with a gammy leg, I am simply not up to handling a pole myself and SWMBO is 4ft 11" and not exactly strong.
So I was thinking that a gennaker on the sprit would simply be a more effective version of a cruising chute.

 

[Plevier]

I've come reluctantly to the conclusion that unless I have a full beefcake crew I'll have to snuff the sail when gybing. The pole is 8' long and has to go around/inside the babystay. The downhaul is inside the stay and the uphaul is outside it so I have to disconnect the downhaul when gybing and reconnect to stop it chafing against the stay unless I'm not thinking straight? What do I use the jockey pole for and does it get connected to the stays?

Thanks!

Curiously I have the opposite problem. The mast has a pole uphaul that exits just below the babystay so is inside the little triangle (does yours definitely not have an exit there? You could fit one), but the obvious downhaul attachment eye is forward of the babystay on deck. However it turns out that's meant for a storm jib.

I've managed to fiddle an extra shackle into the babystay deck attachment, a wide one that will let a block go out to either side a bit, so now I have a downhaul inside the babystay too and I can try end for ending it through the inner triangle. First test this weekend...

The pole that came with the boat was a good foot longer than J (12ft) so I've shortened it to equal J which I gather is the norm. Makes it much easier in a dry run. Still expecting major snarlups though. Wish me luck I'll need it.

If any experts have better ideas please say!

 

[Quandary]

Selden Sprit and gennaker

Jason, the sprit itself works well though for structural reasons the projection is much less than you get on a J, however most of the effect could be replicated with a strop from the cockpit through a block on the end of the bow roller. Our sails all came from North, Finland, but that does not mean they were all made there, they seem to be a good shape and well put together but this gennaker is definitely a reaching sail. I had just hoped I could run a bit with it. The main is very big and blankets the gennaker downwind. I have tried poling it out and goosewinging to get straight down wind with limited success, I reckon you need to be gybing through about 120 degrees to use it effectively. We used it on a feeder at WHYW last year from Gigha to Crinan, it was very frustrating gybing about as the spinnakers steamed away. I have little experience of cruising chutes but am old enough to have used a blooper but I am much more familiar with spinnakers so maybe I need someone to show me how to get the best out of it.
I am just making it clear that these things are a poor substitute for a proper kite for cruising though it is a fun sail to use for broad reaching.

 

[jwgl]

spinnakers

my wife and her sister asked why 'that boat has a great big lovely coloured sail and we got boring white ones' ..............she's new to sailing.