More Regulation (very boaty)

Maybe its time!!!

For someone from the RYA or MCA to jump in here and clarify matters. There are a number of basic questions to be answered.
1. After the 20th of September 2004 does this SI legally affect leisure boaters?
2. If it does, what part(s) of the act apply?
3. If liesure boaters contravene any part of the act what are the consequences?
4. If there is a general "we will not apply these regs at this time attitude" from the relevant authorities, please tell us?

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I'm so glad the Government is spending my tax money wisely. With all the paperwork that should generate it'll keep at least 500 civil servants in jobs and create at least 800 more.
What a caring bunch we have running the country.

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Re: Normal Practice

in US and many other countries.

My mate the Chief, while running his Russian shipping, had a real problem with this stuff. It rather goes against the Russian ideal to go around owning up to problems. They work on an admirable "you get into trouble you get yourself out of it" ethos.

The trouble is the US dont like 300,000 ton tankers, aground up the creek, sorting out their own problems.

Lets face it, in the Solent, yachts that run out of tea bags are already reporting in with the CG.

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I suggest that every incident should be reported - then the MCA may change their mind - i.e if you are on a drying mooring do you have to report a grounding twice a day?

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No probs
Maybe we can substitute all those Solent radio checks with incident reports, should make interesting listening<s>

Peter.

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Or would they use them as a reason for more regs, due to all the incidents that they have found??

Brian

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Re: Normal Practice

A US sailing friend of mine was racing with collegues from the Chicago stock exchange when they broached, lost a crewmember over the side who was immediately picked by a following yacht. Everyone was ok so the skipper took no further action, however the next monday police turned up on the trading floor and lead him away in handcuffs for not reporting the incident to the USCG. Hefty fine followed I believe, though the other traders found it amusing!

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Re: Normal Practice

"Lets face it, in the Solent, yachts that run out of tea bags are already reporting in with the CG."

Come on that's an exaggeration, coffee yes, but I've never heard tea bags. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

<hr width=100% size=1>Think I'll draw some little rabbits on my head, from a distance they might be mistaken for hairs.
 
Rather than avoid reporting, maybe we should all report every single instance. It would only take a few weeks for the boneheads at MCA (actually the department that instructs the MCA) to tread a more practical path when totally immersed in paperwok of meaningless value.

All this over-regulation gets to you after a while, doesn't it? I have spent the past few months taking the boat down to the Canaries - sure these sort of rules exist in the countries I have passed and visited, but their enforcement is largely ignored. The beauty of sailing or powerboating is that it is arguably the greatest of freedoms - this wretched government's attempts to regulate everything we do and think (oh, yes, dear reader, have no doubt that this is where it is all directed) conflicts so much with the freedoms I have just experienced that I have resolved to make my life elsewhere. I frankly think the good parts of living in this island (and there are good parts undoubtedly) are now outweighed by the bad parts - and those have very largely been created by a government overzealous in it's desire to control the way we think (look what happened to the BBC as a disseminator of informed opinion) and whatever activity we want to pursue.

That rant felt good - well I enjoyed it anyway!

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If this IS the case.....

... I for one will just ignore it.

They havn't the resources or the balls to do anything about it.

Steve Cronin



<hr width=100% size=1>The above is, like any other post here, only a personal opinion
 
There can be no doubt that regulation 4(5) applies regulation 12 to all 'recreational craft'. Pretty extraordinary really. Interesting to see what the RYA has to say about it.

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I agree. And just think of all those colreg incidents, port/starboard incidents, "Water...! " incidents, arguments between captain and crew incidents, PWC incidents, lobster pot incidents, winch handles over the side incidents, SWMBO getting splashed incidents, spilled G&T incidents... the list of incidents one could report is endless and I'm sure the HMG staff will take great delight in reading them.

Go for it...!!! I think each SB member should make it a matter of honour to report at least 5 incidents per day each.

John

"Treat a fool according to his folly lest he be wise in his own conceit...." (Proverbs somewhere)

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"Application
4. - (1) Subject to paragraph (2), and unless otherwise stated, these Regulations, apply to -
(a) all United Kingdom ships wherever they may be; and

(b) all non-United Kingdom ships whilst they are in United Kingdom waters.
(2) Subject to paragraph (5), these Regulations do not apply to -
(a) ships of less than 300 gross tonnage, unless otherwise stated;

(b) warships, naval auxiliaries and other ships owned or operated by the Government of an EEA State which are used for non-commercial public service;

(c) fishing vessels;

(d) traditional ships;

(e) recreational craft having a length of less than 45 metres.
(3) Subject to paragraph (5)(d), in relation to a ship, these Regulations do not apply to -
(a) bunkers of less than 5,000 tonnes; and

(b) the stores and the equipment,
for use on board that ship.

(4) For the purposes of regulation 10, in relation to a ship, bunkers for use on board that ship shall not be regarded as dangerous or polluting goods.

(5) Regulation 12 applies to -
(a) fishing vessels;

(b) traditional ships;

(c) recreational craft having a length of less than 45 metres; and

(d) in relation to a ship, bunkers of less than 5,000 tonnes for use on board that ship.


12. - (1) When a ship is involved in -
(a) an accident;

(b) an incident; or

(c) a pollution event likely to result in the pollution of United Kingdom waters or the coastline of the United Kingdom,
in controlled waters, the master of that ship shall immediately send to Her Majesty's Coastguard responsible for the area in which it occurred by the quickest means possible a report containing the information specified in paragraph (3).

(2) If a slick of polluting goods or containers or packages drifting at sea are seen from a ship in controlled waters, the master of that ship shall immediately send to Her Majesty's Coastguard responsible for the area in which the sighting occurred by the quickest means possible -
(a) details of the sighting;

(b) the information specified in paragraph (3)(a) and (b); and

(c) any other relevant information referred to in IMO Resolution A.851(20) adopted by the Assembly of the IMO on 27th November 1997.
(3) The information referred to in paragraph (1) shall comprise -
(a) the identity of the ship;

(b) the position of the ship;

(c) the last port from which the ship departed;

(d) the next port of call;

(e) the number of people aboard the ship;

(f) the date on which, and the time at which, the accident, the incident or the polluting event, as the case may be, occurred;

(g) details of the accident, the incident or the polluting event, as the case may be;

(h) the name of the body or person from whom information regarding any dangerous goods or polluting goods on board the ship may be obtained together with the necessary information to enable that person or body, as the case may be, to be contacted.
(4) The master shall also ensure that a report referred to in paragraph (1) shall comply as to form and content with the standard reporting requirements.
and from the begining......


(2) For the purposes of these Regulations -
(a) "accident" means any accident or occurrence affecting the safety of a ship, including, without prejudice to the generality of the foregoing, any occurrence whereby a ship -
(i) is in collision,

(ii) grounds,

(iii) is damaged,

(iv) malfunctions or breaks down,

(v) suffers the flooding or shifting of cargo, or

(vi) suffers a defective hull or structural failure;
(b) "incident" means any incident which affects or could affect the safety of a ship or other ships, including, without prejudice to the generality of the foregoing, a failure or defect which affects or is likely to affect -
(i) the manoeuvrability or seaworthiness,

(ii) the propulsion system,

(iii) the steering gear,

(iv) the electrical generating system,

(v) the navigation equipment, or

(vi) the communications system,
of that ship.

So reading the above excerpts from teh regs it would appear that it does apply to pleasure craft in sop far as regulation 12 applies


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holy crap- I'd better get writing

(a) the identity of the ship; Mine

(b) the position of the ship; Thames Estuary

(c) the last port from which the ship departed; Shotley

(d) the next port of call; Chatham

(e) the number of people aboard the ship; Two

(f) the date on which, and the time at which, the accident, the incident or the polluting event, as the case may be, occurred; Last Week

(g) details of the polluting event, as the case may be; Had a pee over the stern rail




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Just look at the title ....

The Merchant Shipping (Vessel Traffic Monitoring and Reporting Requirements) Regulations 2004#

Made 10th August 2004

Laid before Parliament 16th August 2004

Coming into force 20th September 2004


.... Pardon me for being thick, but weren't they (The House of Commons) all on holiday for the WHOLE of August ?? Is this another of Billy Liar's tricks to slip things through when we're not looking? ie: If Parliament is not in session, then how can a SI be laid before Parliament and approved when all its members are on holiday ????????








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Suggest suitable report sheets are available at your local supermarket in long continuous rolls with handy perforations and come in a range of attractive pastel colours. On a good week you get 12 rolls for the price of 9!

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To start my seagul outboard I open the air breather and fuel valve and press the button to fill the float chamber, keep it pressed until it dribbles and make a report to the CG before pulling the starter. Nice!

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One wonders - is there a fee payable to the MCA for each submission.


If so it could be claimed as yet another stealth tax (since nobody is going to pay the VHF license fee anymore.......)

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Stop what you're doing and wait my signal
 
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