More Greek rip offs?

Yes once the dekpa is full ,you have to renew it,and yes Greek registered boats have to sign in and out. I suspect the flotilla
boats and charter yachts are sorted by the lead boats and offices.
will speak to the local yacht charter owners this week.See what their interpretation of the rules are. I,m due to sign in the end of the week again and see what is said.
 
My my I obviously upset you but you were less than subtle in your post heading surely? or did I read that incorrectly also?
Dare I say that if you read my reply correctly you would have seen that re the documents I merely pointed what I had been asked for by many and various port police both on and off the tourist circuit" that you seem to have another predjudice about
 
. the port officials do not make up the rules, and certainly they do not charge as much as they can get away with.

Tassosp hi,
My experience of sailing around Greece and the islands was that many did make make up the rules.... One time I was charged almost double the previous island - when I asked for the name rank and number of the official involved and told him I was visiting the ministry of tourism the following week the price dropped by 2/3rds.

Another Island I was backing onto the quay and an 'official' in white uniform appeared and instructed me to go into a slightly different 'slot' - He took my lines, threw them back into the filthy water and handed me a card asking me to pay money for parking - shortly I after in the harbour office clearing in I was asked to pay again - why? Because the 'official' is not an official but a cousin of the harbour master and helps keep the quay 'tidy' so the visiting boats are 'asked' to pay him a fee...........

Another Island I was trying to clear out to make a longish passage taking most of the daylight hours available and the harbour official refused to process my papers before the television programme he was waiting on the office TV was finished - some 20 minutes later... Watching TV was more important than dealing with clearance papers....

I sailed the same boat into many islands and mainland ports and found the 'fees' varied depending on the official in charge....... Not unreasonable to expect all public harbours to charge about the same.

Of course there were good experiences in Greece mainland and less popular islands enjoyable but having been to many 'foreign' countries in my boat I found the Greek experience less satisfactory than many 3rd world countries. Rather greedy Athenians taking advantage of visitors is my overriding memory of several months in the country..
 
Having just paid Eu220 for one nights stay in Peurto Sabinas on Formentera in the last month - I wish I was as 'ripped off' for the couple of Euro that paid by the orginal poster in his Greek Marina. Or even twice that paid by the Norwegians.

Maybe the heading of the post should be changed to 'More Greek Good Value BUT confusion over how it's applied'? That would more accurately describes the content and is certainly less insulting to Greek readers.
Cheers
JOHN
 
£150.00 for one night in a 46' yacht? Surely that's something for the European Court of Human Rights! It's about time they did something worthwhile.

I've never been to Greece, so have no direct experience of their 'systems', but one question, How do they get away with it? I thought we were all in europe together.
 
Yeh, but Formentera is part of the Balearics. We politely declined their kind offer of a berth (we hate marinas anyway) when we were last there about 4 years ago. For one night for our 9.7 metre boat would have been £51.00 PLUS water and 'lectric!! /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

Happily we just anchored in the bay outside in turquoise water and grinned the white faced Brits who cam eout in the morning!!! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

The problem we were told, was that most, if not all of the berths are pre-booked (many by wealthy Germans) well before the season starts. The boaty version of chucking a towel on the lounger I guess! Any spare they charge what they like.

Super island though and well worth a visit (especially if you hire a scooter or two for exploring) provided you are prepared to anchor - or fork out monstrous fees!

Cheers Jerry
 
Balearics - prices

Hi John,

we were planning on coming over to the islands a couple of weeks ago. Contacts in the marina advised us of €200 a night for a 12metre on Ibiza island in July/August . We 've changed our plans to visit towards the end of September when the prices are a bit more reasonable.

Steve
 
We have a Greek flagged professional yacht ie: it has a commercial licence, and I've never heard of this document. Maybe it only applies to private boats?

I think it is quite valid to register complaints about charges that you feel are unfair, but I think putting 'More Greek rip offs' as the subject of your message is being very provocative.

Greece is a wonderful country to sail in, and still relatively cheap. I feel very sorry for the contributor who didn't enjoy it here. Either he/she went to the wrong places, or maybe they want big marinas with lots of services.

We run a sailing school and skippered charter here and I can honestly say that we never tire of sailing here and find the majority of Greeks friendly and welcoming. The food can be expensive and bad in places like Mykonos but few yachties in their right minds would go there anyway! There are many many excellent tavernas serving good tasty inexpensive food, and they will often give you free wine or desserts.

One final point - Greece is a relative newcomer to the EU - is that so? I thought we'd been in for ages. Will look it up. Does anyone know?

Regards
Melody
 
Re: Gaios on Paxos.....

I think you are incorrect in saying that all Greek boats paid half. My understanding is that Greek flagged professional (ie: commercial) vessels pay 50% of what private vessels pay. This is because they are seen as bringing visitors to the port who will spend money. So although if you are on a charter yacht, you would pay less, as far as I'm aware private Greek flagged yachts pay exactly the same as any other EU yacht.
 
Re: Balearics - prices

[ QUOTE ]
Hi John,

we were planning on coming over to the islands a couple of weeks ago. Contacts in the marina advised us of €200 a night for a 12metre on Ibiza island in July/August . We 've changed our plans to visit towards the end of September when the prices are a bit more reasonable.

Steve

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi Steve,

You right in that August appears to be the killer month for marina prices. We would not have gone into Sabinas had we not had the starter motor to replace.....

As a recent example on prices - Ibiza Club Nautico for 15M in July Eu80 - August Eu150 - September back to Eu80. If you go further to Palma suggest you try Alboran midweek - as I've said in another post on this forum. We've got Swagman there at moment and it's less than Eu50 per day.

If you are coming over to Ibiza island would suggest you are almost better off anchoring in either San Antonio or Ibiza Town harbours - as the two towns marina facilities are both pretty sad and not even worth spending the lower scaled fees.

Cheers
JOHN
 
I agree with you. Greece is an awful place and I will never sail there again, leaving the Greeks alone in their 3rd world hell /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Turkey is better by far!

BTW did anybody of you ever vote for any EU law? Does your Constitution allow a third party (a mere employee) to impose laws to your country?
 
[ QUOTE ]
tassosp
Regarding the Private pleasure maritime traffic document, perhaps you can explain what that is all about? As members of the EU we do not need a transit Visa even though greece continued to enforce one well after EU membership. Having been forced to stop this practice, they then introduce this totally unnecessary (IMO)new document which is just a way to squeeze more money out of EU pleasure vessels. If it is so necessarry in Greece, why don't we need one anywhere else in Europe?


[/ QUOTE ]
Do you think Greece is out of order by selectively applying EU laws ? Perhaps we should look nearer home at this ridiculous situation of personal allowances for EU duty paid goods ie booze and fags. How the government and C&E can justify confiscation of vehicles and goods is beyond me. To my mind it brings the whole of our involvement in the EU into disrepute.
 
Re: Gaios on Paxos.....

We've sailed in Ionion and Aegean areas of Greece and only a few places bother asking you to produce documents - it's the time-wasting pain of watching someone spend 1/2 an hour to complete forms in triplicate with carbon paper and then charge you 3-4 Euros - you almost feel they should charge more - can't barely cover the cost of paying for the process, wages, posting off other copy to god knows where!

WE've stayed in Gaaios 4 times now and never been approached by Post Police for papers or payment. Only time we went was on arrival in Greece as this was our fisrt point and hadn't caught on that most places the Port Police leave you alone. In Navplio they even came and made us all reorganise for port to accommodate cruise liner, but no intention of charging us.

It's bureaocracy gone a bit mad, but annoying rather than anything esle - see the thread on here about UK harbours making charges for just anchoring and look at the persepctive!

Steve
 
"Greece is an awful place "

That's a very sweeping statement! Greece is NOT awful. That doesn't mean that everywhere is nice or that you can't have bad experiences, but it would be more informative if you explained what you didn't like and what was better in Turkey.

I've sailed in both countries, although far more in Greece. I found much of the Turkish coastline spoilt by random unfinished developments. Although Turkish men were very friendly, I also didn't like the fact that I never met any Turkish women between the ages of 16 and 60. However, I wouldn't judge that country on my short acquantance with it.

I suspect you have spent very little time in Greece yet you condemn it. Your comments are very ignorant.
 
What I dont't like in Greece? Too many boats, most of them full of b....y foreigners! (you can find them everywhere, even out of Britain, you know).

And, yes, I think that the Aegean is skipper's heaven on earth (lots of wind, lots of islands, lots of sun, crystal-clear waters, no tides, no significant currents, no unexpected shallows, no sharks, no magnetic deviation!)

I hope I didn't discourage any potentional clients.

Cheers,

Theodore (only 48 years in Greece)
 
Re: Aegean

[ QUOTE ]

And, yes, I think that the Aegean is skipper's heaven on earth (lots of wind, lots of islands, lots of sun, crystal-clear waters, no tides, no significant currents, no unexpected shallows, no sharks, no magnetic deviation!)



[/ QUOTE ]

I want to be more precise, just in case somebody took my word for it.

Lots of wind. Not for the faint-hearted though as they may well reach F8, the average being 4-6.
Lots of islands. 3000 islands and islets in total for Greece (4000 according to CIA factbook) 274 of which are inhabited.
Lots of sun. Be careful though, at least the first days, as non-med european skins are not used to it.
Crystal-clear waters. Not inside all harbours though.
No tides. 20-30 cm in some (very few) places.
No significant currents. Well, there is one, near the city of Chalkis, all others at 1 max 2 knots.
No unexpected shallows. Well, you are supposed to expect shallow waters on land and sometimes very close to it. Otherwise there are very few other rocks all marked on the (excellent, don't rely on any other) Greek charts.
No sharks. Of course there are sharks, it's not the Dead Sea, but they are small and not dangerous (we call them skylopsara - dogfish). I remember only one accident about 30 years ago, but as the body of the wife was never found, rumors spred.
No magnetic deviation. Less than 3 deg. so much less than my compass-reading accuracy. Anyway, you can usually see where you are going...

End of brochure.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I think it is quite valid to register complaints about charges that you feel are unfair, but I think putting 'More Greek rip offs' as the subject of your message is being very provocative.


[/ QUOTE ]
Fair point Melody it was (probably intentionally) provocative.
And in fairness to Greece I do enjoy sailing there, it is a great country.
However even though the people are very friendly and small harbours tend not to charge, appreciating that people will spend there money in the village. I am noticing a general trend towards commercialisation. Only a few years ago the above was very true, but now more and more places are charging higher prices. I guess this is inevitable and I should not complain, however I do think Greece will lose some of its charm that it was always famous for.
Take Poros for example, before this year I have only ever been charged 1 or 2 euros for water. This is fair enough. This year however I was charged 4 euros for mooring and 4 for water, this was the charge if I had 10 litres or 1000 litres.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Do you think Greece is out of order by selectively applying EU laws ? Perhaps we should look nearer home at this ridiculous situation of personal allowances for EU duty paid goods ie booze and fags. How the government and C&E can justify confiscation of vehicles and goods is beyond me. To my mind it brings the whole of our involvement in the EU into disrepute.

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree, also the charging for anchoring debate is worth a read, and yes I do think Britain is a Rip Off.
 
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