More Electrical Issues:(

[PaulRainbow]

For replacement cable Tri Rated 50 or 70mm2 cable, using a hydraulic crimper. City Electrical Factors supply Tri rated cable in the cut length required. Cable ties direct for the lugs, make sure you have the correct CSA and fixing holes sizes for each lug. A crimper from Ebay is ~£20

50mm is way over spec for a little Perkins, never mind 70mm. I would advise against using tri-rated cable for batteries, proper battery cable is the stuff to use. For instance, 35mm tri-rated is only rated at 167amps and has 276 strands of wire, whereas 35mm battery cable is rated for 240 amps and has 451 individual strands. So 35mm is much more flexible and carries more than enough current for the OPs engine, unless his cables are excessively long.

 

[jwilson]

A few years back I had similar with a Yanmar 3YM: starter battery appeared duff, even after all connections cleaned/checked. Needed house batteries in parallel to start. Starter battery voltage fine, so I assumed that although the voltage was good, it ws not supplying enough amperage. Bought new Varta starter battery - no change....

Turned out the fault was with the starter motor itself - new motor fixed everything.

 

[VicMallows]

A few years back I had similar with a Yanmar 3YM: starter battery appeared duff, even after all connections cleaned/checked. Needed house batteries in parallel to start. Starter battery voltage fine, so I assumed that although the voltage was good, it ws not supplying enough amperage. Bought new Varta starter battery - no change....

Turned out the fault was with the starter motor itself - new motor fixed everything.

YES, precisely the same symptoms as OP with the starter on my BUKH20 a few years ago. Voltage drop at engine battery was massive, even with brand new battery, indicating that current draw was far too great. (Engine would indeed just manage to start with house bank also in parallel).

It was indeed the starter motor failing to turn fast enough and therefore drawing massive current. I had already rebuilt the starter many years before for a similar problem, and as I wanted to go off in the boat very soon I gave in and bought a brand-new starter (off ebay, not BUKH!) . The engine is a delight to start now ....even in winter.

 

[Dougal]

Hi guys
This is a bit long winded, but please read and help if you can. I'd really appreciate it.
This issue is now becoming what is probably for me, a total season killer! After trying some of the tests suggested here, and trying to work methodically from point A to point B along the route, I discovered several faults, and then created yet more, probably more serious issues... Certainly more expensive!

No wonder I couldn't immediately identify the problem, as here is what I discovered...

1. Main isolator switch at battery bank faulty. Replaced with new item (had one in the locker).
2. Terminal on main +battery cable at solenoid end fractured. Definitely a weak connection and showing a voltage drop. Renewed connector with borrowed heavy duty crimper (correct tool but not hydraulic).
3. One solenoid post not tight. Removed all connections, cleaned posts and replaced washers and lock nuts.
4. No damage or corrosion visible at starter motor positive terminal, but removed and cleaned anyway.
5. Removed, checked and cleaned all main positive and earth connections.

I didn't get as far as retesting after this, as now come the newly discovered problems, creating yet more issues.

For anyone familiar with the Perkins 4.108, there's a metal plate bolted to the stb side of the engine, on which are mounted engine electrical components, including main alternator/engine fuse, solenoids for starter motor and cold start etc. The wiring loom going into all these items is TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY goosed (technical term)! This wiring has obviously not been disturbed for many years and, even inside the conduit, has hardened and corroded so badly, that as I moved it around to gain access, much of it has simply cracked, broken and crumbled! I've tinkered with old boats, cars and bikes for almost 40 years, and never seen anything this bad. I have to confess to feeling ashamed for allowing this to happen:-( There's always so much to do on an old boat, that I've ignored items I thought to be well protected. Obviously at my own peril:-(

The first thing I'm asking you guys for, is cheeky I know, but a little help with researching what's still available regards the loom. Where we have the boat in France, the wifi is total crap, and I'm constantly being kicked offline. I'm trying but its sooooo frustrating. I've not even been able to download any manuals yet (which I normally have me), as we can't stay online long enough at any one time!

I could try to make up some sort of wiring harness myself, but electrickery is really not 'my thing', so I'd MUCH rather just 'plug in' a new section if I can.

The boat is fitted with an original, Perkins stamped engine control panel and loom. The loom is in various sections. The first section, running from control panel to engine compartment is in much better shape (no heat I guess). At the engine, the harness terminates at a rubberised plug and socket (now completely disintegrated), and begins a new section.

If someone would be kind enough to see if any of these lower sections are available online, I'd be massively grateful.

I have a couple of phone numbers where I've previously sourced Perkins parts, that I'll try tomorrow, but I don't have any part numbers.

Any and all suggestions, however on or off the wall, are welcome;-)

 

[lpdsn]

There's a few places where I've sourced wiring in the past that seem to do old car wiring looms. They might be worth contacting.

www.autosparks.co.uk +44 (0) 115 949 7211
www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk 01584 819552
http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu 0115 9305454
And of course there is 12V Planet www.12vplanet.co.uk

 

[<152587>]

Where exactly are you in Brittany? Any where Roscoff?

 

[Dougal]

Where exactly are you in Brittany? Any where Roscoff?

Probably about as far as one can get from Roscoff I think. La Roche Bernard. Almost as far south in Brittany as you can get without running out;-)

 

[<152587>]

You got wheels over there?

 

[Dougal]

You got wheels over there?

i can have;-)

 

[<152587>]

Pulled out, zoidberg yer man.

 

[zoidberg]

Pleas for info elsewhere generated this:

I've posted it here in case it proves useful to someone else.

 

[Dougal]

Thanks for that. I've tried several places for parts of, or all the wiring harness but not found anything. I'm going to attempt making up a new section.

 

[Dougal]

Progress report...
1st and foremost, a MASSIVE thank you to all who tried to help. This forum and the people in it are often life savers, and I'm always extremly grateful for you help.
The original problem 'appears' to have been no less than THREE poor connections on the main battery cables at switch, solenoid and starter motor.
In disturbing and moving these heavy cables, large harness connector blocks and much of the light engine wires simply cracked and crumbled, even some inside the harness itself. This made identifying the correct wires a nightmare. I've spent all day tracing individual wires and circuits, temporarily replacing much of the damaged cables.
So far, I have a WORKING starter, and most gauges and engine lights seem to work whrn ignition circuit initialised.
From the UK i've ordered a bunch of different coloured, tinned wire and waterproof blocks etc to do it a bit better. That will hopefully get me through the season, and maybe I can find or make a new harness section for next year.
What I can't yet do, is actually run the engine, as while climbing in the bilge, I managed to stand on and destroy the braided diesel return pipe! Going to be one of 'those' years it seems.
No idea if I can get one made up here in France. The end coming from the CAV filter housing looks standard, but the join to solid copper for the tank return is a different size.
Gotta love old boats

 

[lpdsn]

What I can't yet do, is actually run the engine, as while climbing in the bilge, I managed to stand on and destroy the braded ditself return pipe! Going to be one of 'those' years it seems.
)

Some days you just need a cup of tea or a glass of wine and leave the job till tomorrow.

 

[PaulRainbow]

Progress report...
1st and foremost, a MASSIVE thank you to all who tried to help. This forum and the people in it are often life savers, and I'm always extremly grateful for you help.
The original problem 'appears' to have been no less than THREE poor connections on the main battery cables at switch, solenoid and starter motor.
In disturbing and moving these heavy cables, large harness connector blocks and much of the light engine wires simply cracked and crumbled, even some inside the harness itself. This made identifying the correct wires a nightmare. I've spent all day tracing individual wires and circuits, temporarily replacing much of the damaged cables.
So far, I have a WORKING starter, and most gauges and engine lights seem to work whrn ignition circuit initialised.
From the UK i've ordered a bunch of different coloured, tinned wire and waterproof blocks etc to do it a bit better. That will hopefully get me through the season, and maybe I can find or make a new harness section for next year.
What I can't yet do, is actually run the engine, as while climbing in the bilge, I managed to stand on and destroy the braided diesel return pipe! Going to be one of 'those' years it seems.
No idea if I can get one made up here in France. The end coming from the CAV filter housing looks standard, but the join to solid copper for the tank return is a different size.
Gotta love old boats

There is no real need for braided hose, provided no risk of chafing exists. Proper fuel hose is perfectly adequate. Return lines from CAV filter heads are invariably 8mm ID hose. 8mm hose will squash down to 6mm and stretch over 3/8" metal pipes, so you may well just be able to replace the old hose with some new 8mm stuff.

 

[colind3782]

There is no real need for braided hose, provided no risk of chafing exists. Proper fuel hose is perfectly adequate. Return lines from CAV filter heads are invariably 8mm ID hose. 8mm hose will squash down to 6mm and stretch over 3/8" metal pipes, so you may well just be able to replace the old hose with some new 8mm stuff.

+1 and it's cheap and readily available.

 

[Dougal]

There is no real need for braided hose, provided no risk of chafing exists. Proper fuel hose is perfectly adequate. Return lines from CAV filter heads are invariably 8mm ID hose. 8mm hose will squash down to 6mm and stretch over 3/8" metal pipes, so you may well just be able to replace the old hose with some new 8mm stuff.

That's excellent news thanks. I guess there's very little pressure, if any in that line then?

 

[PaulRainbow]

That's excellent news thanks. I guess there's very little pressure, if any in that line then?

Not enough pressure in the fuel lines from the tank to the injector pump and in the return circuit to be an issue for rubber fuel lines.