Moonraker 36 Moulds for sale.

interesting stuff. Was seriously thinking of getting one last year, but was too tatty and too expensive...

I follow the discussion with interest BUT I have a serious problem on the exterior aesthetics of a 70ies hull design fitted with curvy 00ies window frames and altered f/b. Just doesn't make sense imho, especially as looking at it I immediately bring back in mind the brochure yellow 'raker...

Don't know if/how the project is going to end up, but I'm with ls1 on this, is there really a market for an "modernised" 70ies hull? If you do make enough changes to have a fresh above waterline design, it defies the reason, as you'll need new moulds and tooling, so I'm a bit confused.

V.
 
As many have said, one thing that will instantly make the boat look a lot more modern (which imho you desperately need to do) is use bonded windows, not horrid frames.

With regard to your hull extension to the stern, I have some limited experience in this area with a 34ft hull. If you extend below the waterline as well it will generate lift and buoyancy which if you sticking the weight of a heads plus passerelle etc out the back you will need.

Personally, would ditch the en-suite idea in this section. Without massive investment I don't think it will ever be satisfactory. If you want to extend the stern for looks then that's not a bad plan, but I suspect you will be limited to storage.

The other thing you have to think very carefully about is costs and retail price. Let me tell you know, bringing a new model to market is very very hard work - I wont go into details but trust me I know what it takes and its very very easy to throw good money after bad.

Before you do anything, you need to have your marketing strategy, costs and contingencies as well as market research nailed down other wise you are just setting yourself up for a lot of pain. I'm not saying don't do it, I'm just saying go in with your eyes open. I have made just about every mistake going with this business, so if you want a chat about how not to do it drop me a line and I will gladly be of any help if I can.

I think its an interesting project, but don't get too carried away doing so much with the old hull it would have cost the same to start from scratch
 
Gents, I'd agree, not sure of market, but to clarify.

I bought the tools because I like the boat. I'd like it more, updated a bit, I think. I fancied making one for here (broads probably) and one for the Med. If these worked out Ok, it was my intention is to build a couple more to my new design to start a small 'hire fleet'. If that worked, I'd build more.

If they got attention of the right kind, then I'd produce for sale. But strictly to order.

Virtuvas, take on board what you say, it's in the eye of the beholder. My hope is that the overal blend I finish with makes a viable package.

Whitelighter, you may well be right about the en-suite idea. Was something that fitted in on sketch, out in the real world may not pan out at all. For the reasons above, though, this is a 'cart before the horse' operation. I have the ability to build what I want, which exactly fits my needs, for myself. Whether it fits what other people want, or meets their needs is another matter, but that much I would know before I ever produced one to try to sell to A N Other.

I have another mould tool for a 32' sunbridge very similar in appearance to the Bayliner Ciera. If I'm going to sell boats in any kind of number, I imagine that's going to be my 'seller'. (Hoping to have my demonstrator on that model built by June/July of next year)
 
Lesdyxic said:
I don't know if there is a demand, is the honest answer.

I like to think that some things mature better than others.

There's the E-type Jag, and the Austin Allegro. Both have decotees, but the E-type has more, of course.

I'm guessing I have a Triumph TR6 on my hands here? Undoubted qualities, lots of committed fans, but not perfect and not everyone's cup of tea. But they still sell, whenever they are available, secondhand. Would a new one sell? Who can say.....

Speaking to people who've seen the latest design powered with twin 225, they report no 'overpowering' problem, indeed, that is being touted to me as the 'dream ticket', (by more than one source) with a recommendation to uppower to compensate for any extra weight added during my tinkerings.
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Honest answer, thank you. Can you confirm what the aft sections look like??

On subject of overpowereing. IF your quoted 225 is Perkins Sabre 225 it is nowhere near 225 'true horsepower' nearer 190 when you get one on the dyno. Also Perkins Sabre has torque curve akin to swayback horse, they would never give impression of real urge.

Spending a heap of $$ on something which may prove to have directional handling qualities of a Scud missile would worry the heck out of me. Not sure how much longer Perkins 225Ti will remain in production as it is based on old generation block and not RCD compliant. Certainly not an engine to be part of any product planning strategy.
 
LS1, Mercruisers have been suggected to me by 3 people, with the relevant gearbox. As I say, haven't sought paid expert advice on that yet.

The sketches I have done are attached to some of the above postings in pdf, don't have a true CAD design below the waterline generated yet.

I think you all have to keep in focus, all I have bought (so far) is some mould tools, very cheaply. I have the ability to produce something. I'm never, ever going to just start making things without having orders for them, and for that I need a good demo model. I will take on all advice to make the boat I want, and see if I can tick as many of my own boxes as possible (sounds a bit pervy, doesn't it?) I'd only know then if it ticked other people's boxes.

But that wasn't why I bought them? It was an impulse. I like them.

I can probably make their cost back producing any GRP spares required by current owners.

If I can make the name arise, like a phoenix from the ashes, I will....(but maybe it will be with another design?)
 
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Lesdyxic said:
LS1, Mercruisers have been suggected to me by 3 people, with the relevant gearbox. As I say, haven't sought paid expert advice on that yet.

The sketches I have done are attached to some of the above postings in pdf, don't have a true CAD design below the waterline generated yet.

I think you all have to keep in focus, all I have bought (so far) is some mould tools, very cheaply. I have the ability to produce something. I'm never, ever going to just start making things without having orders for them, and for that I need a good demo model. I will take on all advice to make the boat I want, and see if I can tick as many of my own boxes as possible (sounds a bit pervy, doesn't it?) I'd only know then if it ticked other people's boxes.

But that wasn't why I bought them? It was an impulse. I like them.

I can probably make their cost back producing any GRP spares required by current owners.

If I can make the name arise, like a phoenix from the ashes, I will....(but maybe it will be with another design?)
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You have had input on Mercrusers..............

Could mean many things, VM based 4.2 or proper a CMD 5.9, either way no 225 rating.

To get VM 4.2 looks like one will have to go to Nanni and not sure if there is 225 rating with them.

The CMD QSB 5.9 could be an option in the lowest 230 rating, produces MORE power at 1,600 rpm (207 Hp) than Perkins Sabre 225 does at rated 2,500 rpm.

I would also look at Volvo D4 225 as an option.

Either way ZF 63A would be ideal tranny.

Still worried about handling, however good luck with your project, life is all about having fun whilst earning a bob or two.
 
Hello Lesdyxic,

Great Project! A few years ago I got involved financing/designing a similar idea. We were taking a 24ft Powercat and turning it into a 32ft FB powercat. What seemed cheaper was to use existing mould and part built hull and stretch it......big mistake. Ended up costing a fortune and looked bad.

The costs went scarily high and we abandoned project. I learn't one very simple lesson. Firstly it is either for yourself or for retail/hire. If it is for yourself then play with the tools etc and be willing to solve imperfections. Design it as you want it and go for it. However we got lost doing what you did. We took a great Idea for a personal boat....then developed it for a Market which may or may not have existed. In the process we lost our way and control of the budget and ended up with a very expensive pile of rubbish.

What I should have done was created the boat for myself, then showed it around and gauged interest and got real life market research/ideas off prospective customers. Then created a new tool off the actual boat we had produced. Although this seems more expensive it actually will not be as you get a better quality product.

I was also not hands on enough, I trusted profesional boat builders who I had seen their work and thought they could do it again. Doing this work is hard, and requires lots of thinking and solving time and effort. My builders got bored and moved on to easier projects which pushed the project back......and my budget up.

Lastly I had a large budget for marketing launch, but in hindsight it was probably 20% of what was actually needed. Whitelighter can definitely help on this as he has experience.

So in summary, I think you should produce boat one for yourself, then gauge interest and if it is popular go for a re-tooling and make new ones from scratch.

It is fun though......I got a lot of help off these forums of design and concept. You seem to be on the right path though...and do not be afraid to ask!

Paul
 
moonraker 36 said:
so much negativity.......
why not help with find solution's.. instead of creating problem's.
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Most odd I thought that I had come up with a heap of potential solutions as well as watch outs........

I have been paid to help with a number of re-powers of older vessels, sadly many were late in the day, owners paid dearly as a result.

One thing I have learned was cautious application of power in older hull designs. Gung ho approach costs some poor sucker big $$.
 
remark really wasn't aimed at anyone in particular LS.
just that the guy as got a dream to build is own boats.
and that we shouldn't pi** on is bonfire before the flames even start to flicker.
 
I totally agree. I have a 1905 wooden Gaff cutter I am long over due restoring.
When she eventually gets back on the water will be lovely.....but I have to realise she will be an over 100 years old boat.
Seriously not in the same league as a modern skimming dish.
 
hello buoys....

Wow, hats off gents.....what a lively forum.....passionate, one could say.

Nautorius, yes, that's it in a nutshell, it was all a quest to get me one of them built the way I wanted it, then all of the interest made me ponder. All else has grown up out of that. But I retain my focus.

To all others that have joined the debate, thank you for your input, I shall read and digest.

Interested that you say (Nautorius) amending a tool didn't work out, as obviously that was central to my plan, at least early on. Suffice to say, I will not be investing large sums of money into launches or anything else, including retooling for a boat unless I had enough orders to mean that their production alone paid back the tool costs.

I have in place means of making the amendments I have discussed here (Or so I believe at this moment, it is early days). It is within the financial boundaries that I have set (As far as I can tell) to create the boat I want to make this into.

If that works and the boat looks good, and handles well, I would potentially make some more, as my hire fleet. If there was no interest or I couldn't resolve problems within a limited budget, I wouldn't. It's not going to become a central part of my life.

Even if my other models look the part, handle great and fit their market perfectly, they will be built to order. No order, no build. I will not be relying on them for my income. All advertising, marketing and PR will be very tightly limited, if it ain't enough, it ain't enough, it won't happen.

I will not be taking on premises or staff, I will sub-contract all processes through existing builders. (early on) I will not be exposing myself to financial risk to make this happen. If I can't afford to do it, it won't get done. The mould tools will become the world's largest ashtray.

If I make and sell one boat, that's fine. Two, fine. More, great. None, yep, can live with that too, because I wil have never sunk money into it that I couldn't afford to. No borrowed money on this project.

Keep this in perspective folks, the first is an experiment. It may or may not work. People may or may not want it. There will be no big boat launch for this or any other project I'm involved in. This is not the start of something big, I'm satisfying a desire of my own. With all of your help, maybe I can make it a good'un.

I have a (relatively) successful business life that boatbuilding will either fit into, or it will go by the wayside. Sad but true.

But I am really impresed with this forum? How about we organise a beery night somewhere and all meet up? I can see this debate alone going into the wee hours....(And the first of many)
 
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That was a nice post Lesdyxic and good on you. That sounds a very sensible way to do it all. I volunteer to buy the first round at the pub meet up

The Moonraker carries a huge amount of nostalgia value among many people. I have written on here a few times over the years about how I sort of got into motorboats, which was when my father bought the May 1973 edition of MBY and it had a group test of 6 boats including the moonraker (I was in single figures, age-wise). I loved the moonraker and thought then that I wanted to get one when I grew up. Unit18 on this forum has that article and sent it to me as a pdf - I have it somewhere on this laptop. Others on here have similar nostalgia stories relating to the Moonraker.

So we wish you much success with the project, however it turns out. you'll get loads of people following the project story with huge interest and quite a good helping of valuable technical input (L'starter frexample is a proper engineer and what he doesn't know about marine diesels isn't worth knowing)
 
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Go for it Lesdyxic, if you have the time and the money and you end up with your dream boat then good for you. In these somewhat depressing times it is nice to see someone with the balls to do this. You will get great input from the forum, most of it helpful, oh and can you start soon, the nights are drawing in and it will make a great thread to keep us all interested over the next few months!
 
what's everyone having?

And the second round is on me....

Thanks too, DTIM. I will inform you all regularly of the triumphs (no pun intended) and the tragedies. I'll try to be honest to allow everyone a few 'I told you so's.

I love the fact that although all advice is given passionately. I think maybe some people thought that I believed I could start remaking Moonraker in the manner of three decades ago.

I go back to my TR6 analagy. If I had bought the worldwide rights to build the Triumph TR6, I'd still only build one until I had orders.

If I had the E-type, maybe I'd build more. But I don't.

And I still have to find the right engine for my TR6, and make sure I haven't got a wheel wobble.

(And capsco, the price will be what someone will pay me for it. When you have a 'one off', and there is no comparitor, there's no other way that I can see. If that price left enough of a margin to make me want to build it, I'd build it. If not, I'd say "sorry, not at that price". If they pay me enough to make it, I'd make it.)

So, I think I know where I am. I'm not sure where I'm going, apart from the fact that it won't be down to the bank for money. If I end up with a product, and people want that product, it will be built and financed on my terms, and my terms alone. Decent deposit and staged payments in a fair and equitable manner. Or not. Not a problem. I've just bought some mould tools, no one got hurt.

Looking aound, I don't see that many people seem to have made great sums out of building boats? As a result, my expectations are not high.
 
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Lesdyxic said:
I've never been lucky enough to be an exception....I'm the norm... ;o)
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You're just being modest now. An excellent Merseysiders' trait. (Me=brought up in Southport and sailed every square inch of the lake there and Crosby. Are Glassplies still going I wonder? :D)
 
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