modern hi tec navigation and instrumentation

Birdseye

Birdseye

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I am out of touch with what is available. My boat has old style Raymarine set up which workd but is in the wrong places. I have watched the Solent Boat Butler on you tube and also a guy doing the Jester chaleng from Cardiff. Plus I am aware of Cmap 93 and Navionics apps on tablets.

So staring off with a clean sheet of paper or maybe I should say a naked boat, how would you equip it for nav/gps/ais/instrumentation and pilot at sensible minimum cost. By sensible minimum, what I mean is decent stuff that will last but not top end and definitely not cheap junk.

What charting would you use.

As for instrumentation I may well retain the old Raymarine depth, log, wind and use a multiplexer ro convert to NMEA 2000. If so what multipleser.
 
Watching this thread as I have little in the way of nav gear.. and I am wondering the same questions.. some plotter and nav equipment for sensible price that will last and be capable enough..
I have NASA Duet log and depth, will get the remote wind speed/direction unit too..
It has an old Garmin nav unit (will retain as back up as it does work).

Auto helm is not operational so will either repair (if possible) or replace at some point.
 
Over the years I have found internet forum populated by relatively IT friendly people, who often take part of their pleasure from handling the IT side of everything, which is of course one of the many ways one finds pleasure from sailing activities. Outside the internet, or people not spending hours days weeks in the internet or IT related activities, the approach is very often radically different (talking about people with *very* extensive cruising experience). If you come from the dark/less IT side, it would pay (a lot) to investigate also how less IT enthusiasts do with their onboard electronics. There are many different solutions which mkght satisfy you a lot more than automatically relying upon the consensus expressed by people having a lot in common between them.
 
Whats the boat usage pattern? Racing and cruising are very different in requirements.

We cruise and live aboard and honestly apart from depth gauge, radar and a plotter we don't use a lot (and Navionics app, obvs). Our wind instrument hasn't worked for a year and i don't miss it enough to fit the new one i bought. AIS transceiver i feel should be on every boat and we use it extensively.
If we raced, i might feel the opposite would be better.

Either way, if i were fitting out from scratch I’d probably go Garmin next time. I tried them all at Marine Superstore and even the cheapest Garmin was faster and more reaponsive than the most expensive Ray/B&G. Capability was about the same, the Garmin was a little less pretty in terms of case design. Their cables are also cheaper, which says a lot about attitude towards customers.

We have B&G, many of the features don't actually work.

For charting I like Navionics due to the community edits etc. but this is really personal preference and without Internet the community edits wont appear anyway.

The Raymarine iTc5 is what you’d want, or their st1 to STNG converter. The iTC5 allows you to remove the old instrument screens as it connects direct to the sensors, but it does need Raymarine in place to calibrate. The ST1 to STNG requires the original instruments to connect to sensors but otherwise converts to N2K/STNG (which are identical aside from the connectors). Neither are technically called “multiplexors” if you’re reading up they’re more converters but are your two proper options.
 
Valid points on the IT friendly peeps.. (I am an IT dunce, so simple is the way for me)
Not really wanting to hijack the OP thread..
It's cruising for me.. with the view that in 4 years time I may be sailing a lot further afield than UK waters...
So looks like....
A reasonable price Android tablet with Navionics
A mid range Garmin
Plus my NASA duet log/depth and wind...
My Old Garmin as back up
Charts etc for manual calcs
Refurb the helm compass (I presume this can be done)
Eventually sort the auto helm (couple of years time).
 
mrtoomanytoys said:
Valid points on the IT friendly peeps.. (I am an IT dunce, so simple is the way for me)
Not really wanting to hijack the OP thread..
It's cruising for me.. with the view that in 4 years time I may be sailing a lot further afield than UK waters...
So looks like....
A reasonable price Android tablet with Navionics
A mid range Garmin
Plus my NASA duet log/depth and wind...
My Old Garmin as back up
Charts etc for manual calcs
Refurb the helm compass (I presume this can be done)
Eventually sort the auto helm (couple of years time).
Click to expand...
As an ex IT person, yes thats absolutely sufficient. I bought all the toys and most just aren't needed cruising. The wind speed is what it is, so unless you're on a cat and the numbers are needed, they're just not needed. Usually a cruiser wont be out when its too windy 🤣
 
lustyd said:
As an ex IT person, yes thats absolutely sufficient. I bought all the toys and most just aren't needed cruising. The wind speed is what it is, so unless you're on a cat and the numbers are needed, they're just not needed. Usually a cruiser wont be out when its too windy 🤣
Click to expand...
We like to see the true wind for the reason you know. We might be doung 12-15 knots downwind, with maybe 10 knots over the deck. You need to know it’s blowing 18-20kn if you are going to harden up onto a beat, or have a very unpleasant surprise. To an extent, that still appplies to cruising monos, it’s just not as dangerous. But we still use VMG, and other wind data when on the beat cruising. I wouldn’t rule out a decent wind instrument. Our tiller pilot can sail to the wind data too.
 
I think people who cruise a lot aren’t surprised that apparent wind is faster upwind. A lot of occasional sailors are, as evidenced by the many weather threads here. Racers aren't surprised but i can see why its good to know the details in that scenario.
Knowing the path and walking the path though…cruisers just reef down when its windy and dont push the performance either way. We often have two reefs when other boats have full sail. You’d be surprised how close boat speed is!
 
lustyd said:
As an ex IT person, yes thats absolutely sufficient. I bought all the toys and most just aren't needed cruising. The wind speed is what it is, so unless you're on a cat and the numbers are needed, they're just not needed. Usually a cruiser wont be out when its too windy 🤣
Click to expand...
Exactly our experience of many years of liveaboard cruising.

Coastal cruising has different demands as you pointed out so some electronic tools are very useful for safety and for gaining experience.

Racing? Well get the best you can afford. Which will be obsolete by the time you get out of the Chandlery door!

I think it's all very personal. I've been lucky to have sailed on yachts electronically overloaded down to the simplicity of our cruiser.

Some good advice on this thread to help pick where you are on the er.... spectrum. :)
 
lustyd said:
I think people who cruise a lot aren’t surprised that apparent wind is faster upwind. A lot of occasional sailors are, as evidenced by the many weather threads here. Racers aren't surprised but i can see why its good to know the details in that scenario.
Knowing the path and walking the path though…cruisers just reef down when its windy and dont push the performance either way. We often have two reefs when other boats have full sail. You’d be surprised how close boat speed is!
Click to expand...
We know ourselves that reefing is not sudden death to speed. In that scenario above we’d put a reef in the main, and roll 1/4 of the jib, if cruising, and be comfortable. We might do 8 knots instead of 9. For us, other multis, and I think the more performance orientated cruisers, the difference between 16 and 18 knots true when beating is quite large. That is why we are grateful to know, and it’s hard to tell downwind. Integrated wind is a must for me, and I’d think that on any boat I’d consider owning. Forecast your ground track on the other tack, in tidal conditions where it’s not obvious, maximise your progress, all sorts of reasons. I know some people go slow cos they like it out there. I too like it out there, but I like arriving too.

Having done more or less what the OP is talking about, we bought a boat with Raymarine Seatalk 1 speed and depth, and Tacktik wind. Realised that the wireless adapter for the wind instruments to talk NMEA was nearly the price of Garmin wind instruments, so sold the tacktik stuff. Bought GNX wind pack, a plain NMEA display, (GNX20), ex display in a chandler, a GPSMap1220, also a year behind the curve, discounted hugely, plus the Raymarine Seatalk 1 to NG converter, some cables to fit it all together. We are still thinking of adding a GMI20.
 
Chiara’s slave said:
We like to see the true wind for the reason you know. We might be doung 12-15 knots downwind, with maybe 10 knots over the deck. You need to know it’s blowing 18-20kn if you are going to harden up onto a beat, or have a very unpleasant surprise. To an extent, that still appplies to cruising monos, it’s just not as dangerous. But we still use VMG, and other wind data when on the beat cruising. I wouldn’t rule out a decent wind instrument. Our tiller pilot can sail to the wind data too.
Click to expand...
As said, it depends on one's sailing needs. I have sailed many years without knowing the wind speed and the last 20+ with full instruments. The apparent wind speed is nice to know if not essential, but I display apparent off the wind because the response time is a tiny bit quicker, which is helpful when avoiding a gybe, in fact I always display apparent when under sail, not having a multihull's need to avoid inversion. True wind, as well as being occasionally useful for bragging rights, I find most useful when motoring or, especially, when motor-sailing. It can be very hard when motor-sailing to judge if the wind has increased enough to be worth cutting the engine and change to just sailing, and when manoeuvring in or out of harbour I also find true more instinctive.
 
Birdseye said:
I am out of touch with what is available. My boat has old style Raymarine set up which workd but is in the wrong places. I have watched the Solent Boat Butler on you tube and also a guy doing the Jester chaleng from Cardiff. Plus I am aware of Cmap 93 and Navionics apps on tablets.

So staring off with a clean sheet of paper or maybe I should say a naked boat, how would you equip it for nav/gps/ais/instrumentation and pilot at sensible minimum cost. By sensible minimum, what I mean is decent stuff that will last but not top end and definitely not cheap junk.

What charting would you use.

As for instrumentation I may well retain the old Raymarine depth, log, wind and use a multiplexer ro convert to NMEA 2000. If so what multipleser.
Click to expand...

Blank sheet of paper, at minimal cost for NAV,GPS,AIS,Instruments

Nav/GPS low cost tablet fitted with internal GPS chip and Memory Maps or Visit My Harbour UKHO Raster Chart subscription.
AIS - any of the low cost AIS units that can use a tablet to display.
Instruments - none - speed and depth from plotter, wind is not needed to adjust sails.

For what you have, I was in a similar position.
Raymarine ST60 was networked, cables are easy to get if yours are not networked, assuming ST60.
Replaced Navman Tracker with Axiom+ 12
Installed a Raymarine ST1 to STNG Convertor to link ST60 to Axiom+ 12
Bought AIS Emtrack B953 with built in splitter and fitted that.

To use existing NMEA10183 items that were also installed (Navtex with navigation repeater features such as XTE and rolling road), I also bought Actisense NGW-1-STNG NMEA 0183 to Raymarine STNG Gateway.

I recommend that you map out what you have, connection type, communication protocol, add in what you want, and establish prices. The best thing I did was graphically draw my network, which in my case showed opportunities to simplify. The graphic can then be used to create a BOM and search for best prices for kit that achieves the same functionality.
 
We all want different bits of info - to me wind is useful as is gps speed but I race without boat speed through the water simply because the paddle wheel fouls up so often. I dont want AIS but I like a radar.

Anyway the thread was prompted as much as anything by the "solent boat bultler£ installing Orca systems and also what I have read of Raspberry Pi type systems. I have been the way of replacing an old nav system on my last boat, bolting on B&G plus a multiplexer to an early Raymarine system, some early Simrad and a B&G digital radar. Yes it finally worked but it wasnt ideal and certainly not to be repeated Not least because the marine nav systems, really just ordinary computers, are ridiculously expensive.

So I am looking for alternatives both to the kit and also to the charting. I once used a copy of CMap 93 ( long gone and now obsolete anyway) on someone elses boat - what is the modern equivalent for chart data?
 
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How techie are you? If you want to save money, the route is fairly technical. There are lots of videos out on Youtube that talk you through how to set up OpenCPN (chart Plotter software) - this is available on a) Windows b) Mac c) Android but buy the bought version and d) Raspberry Pi.

For charts i pay 20 pounds a year to o-charts web site that i use with Opencpn. OpenCPN has plugins or addons that folks have written eg Reading in Grib files for Wind and Tide Predictions.
 

My suggested setup​


  • GPS: Garmin GPS 73 ($150).
  • AIS: Digital Yacht AIT1500 ($700).
  • Instrumentation: Keep Raymarine depth, log, wind; add Yacht Devices YDNU-02 multiplexer ($130) and B&G Triton2 Display ($400).
  • Piloting: Raymarine Evolution EV-100 ($1,500).
  • Total: ~$2,880.

Charting​


  • Navionics+ on a $200 tablet ($50/year subscription).

Multiplexer​


  • Yacht Devices YDNU-02 ($130).

Notes​


  • Place GPS/AIS near helm, adjust Raymarine positions.
  • Add NMEA 2000 wiring (~$50).
  • Test on a short trip.
 
oilybilge said:
Seriously???

At least that explains your name
Click to expand...
I assumed that he meant that the readout would be on the plotter screen which he assumed would be viewable at the helm. This is not a solution that I would favour, if only because other crew members would not be able to see it, but it could work in its own way.
 
johnalison said:
I assumed that he meant that the readout would be on the plotter screen which he assumed would be viewable at the helm. This is not a solution that I would favour, if only because other crew members would not be able to see it, but it could work in its own way.
Click to expand...
Our instruments are at the helm under the plotter so visibility is identical aside from the font size.
 
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