MOB - best sequence of steps with one person left aboard

[JumbleDuck]

Shouldn't you ask, "how many MoB's have been lost, because no practice procedures had been carried out"?

That's an interesting question too. Have you any figures for it?

 

[capnsensible]

Ta. When you use real people, do you get them back on board to end the drill, or just alongside?

Years ago a friend I was sailing with decided to go for a swim in the middle of the Clyde, it being a nice sunny day. In that case we got him back aboard quite easily - it was a little boat, I gave him my hands and he walked up the hull until he could grab the backstay. I wouldn't have liked to try it if the sea hadn't been glassy calm, if the boat had been any bigger or if he had been more than a puny little shrimp.

The harbour ones have been real, often drunk people who can often get a bit stroppy. Preferred method is to untie a fender, get them to hold on to it and tow them to a suitable transom or ladder. Post immersion care can be 'interesting' and sometimes a bit vommity.

Wet people can be difficult to hold on to.

 

[ShinyShoe]

I tend to think that unless, in Tom Cunliffe's approximately-remembered words, "the man was laughing as he fell, and comes bounding up the ladder with a joke" <snip> it's as well to get a DSC alert off pretty early on.

Yip thats always been my view. But the red button has always been within reach of my helming position.
5 seconds to send alert. No voice call. I'd be manoeuvring in that time too.

Its clear that not everything works for everyone on every boat so it needs rehersed on the specific craft.

For me it sounds like:

1. Dan Bouy (yes - you could tack back quicker but if you screw that up (only takes something daft like a rope getting caught on something) you are going to loose sight of position.
2. DSC Alert if can be reached without going below (I wouldn't mess with trying to send a specific alert type). If can't then MOB button on Plotter if can be reached without going below.
3. Crash Tack while doing the DSC if can multi task
4A. Recover MOB
5A. Cancel Distress Alert

4B Fail to recover for some reason.
5B
i. If not already DSC, DSC alert.
ii. Voice Mayday on most powerful radio on board.
6B Keep trying to recover casualty
7B Let Helicopter / Lifeboat do the hard bit of getting on board when they arrive.

If you go with the No DSC option at step 2 - what is the time line in the practice exercises until you would say we need to hit DSC coz this is not working. Are you confident that that delay lets assume its at least 2-3 minutes, wont be vital at the other end? And will it less often be vital at the other end than getting the crash tack in 5 seconds sooner would be?

I don't know is the answer.

But... if the question is about preparedness... I'm picking up that part of the preparedness is going to include thinking out where things are to avoid leaving the helm to press red buttons etc.

 

[alant]

That's an interesting question too. Have you any figures for it?

Well, presumably most of them.

 

[alant]

Yip thats always been my view. But the red button has always been within reach of my helming position.
5 seconds to send alert. No voice call. I'd be manoeuvring in that time too.

Its clear that not everything works for everyone on every boat so it needs rehersed on the specific craft.

For me it sounds like:

1. Dan Bouy (yes - you could tack back quicker but if you screw that up (only takes something daft like a rope getting caught on something) you are going to loose sight of position.
2. DSC Alert if can be reached without going below (I wouldn't mess with trying to send a specific alert type). If can't then MOB button on Plotter if can be reached without going below.
3. Crash Tack while doing the DSC if can multi task
4A. Recover MOB
5A. Cancel Distress Alert

4B Fail to recover for some reason.
5B
i. If not already DSC, DSC alert.
ii. Voice Mayday on most powerful radio on board.
6B Keep trying to recover casualty
7B Let Helicopter / Lifeboat do the hard bit of getting on board when they arrive.

If you go with the No DSC option at step 2 - what is the time line in the practice exercises until you would say we need to hit DSC coz this is not working. Are you confident that that delay lets assume its at least 2-3 minutes, wont be vital at the other end? And will it less often be vital at the other end than getting the crash tack in 5 seconds sooner would be?

I don't know is the answer.

But... if the question is about preparedness... I'm picking up that part of the preparedness is going to include thinking out where things are to avoid leaving the helm to press red buttons etc.

Is all that assuming you are close to help?

Also, the OP was regarding himself going MOB & his wife left to do "what next".
All the above sounds good in theory, but have you tried it 'in extremis' or even practised it without warning the single crewmember (supposedly left aboard)?

 

[ShinyShoe]

Is all that assuming you are close to help?

I'm coastal so yes thats where my mind tends to think. (I think the OP is too)
Yes I can see that 2-3 minutes on a 24 hour rescue is unlikely to make any difference. So the balance would sway towards the first 5 seconds. However, you presumably don't know who is near by chance and with limited search assets a narrower search area from a better informed position for drift mapping may be beneficial.

Also, the OP was regarding himself going MOB & his wife left to do "what next".
All the above sounds good in theory, but have you tried it 'in extremis' or even practised it without warning the single crewmember (supposedly left aboard)?

Yip and thats part of why i'd prefer the other half hit the red button. She'll know there is help on its way and so be slightly less determined to run over me!

MOB on my boat once people are familiar with procedure is always practiced without warning. Object over the side, with a shout. I sit and watch. Or if they are in a retaliational mood they do the same to me usually at an inconvenient time!

 

[JumbleDuck]

Shouldn't you ask, "how many MoB's have been lost, because no practice procedures had been carried out"?

That's an interesting question too. Have you any figures for it?

Well, presumably most of them.

I don't see any reason to presume that. It wouldn't apply to singlehanded cases, or to effectively singlehanded (adult and child) ones, or to cases where the casualty died of a heart atatck on immesrion, or was dragged down by something heavy, or could not be recovered on boat, or drowned being dragged through the water on a tether ...

In other words, the claim that most MOBs who died would not have died if the crew had practiced MOB drill is really one which needs substantiating. Could point to a few MAIB reports, for example?

 

[Barnacle Bill]

My advance apologies if this has already been covered (I haven't read all the comments) but when I am sailing with inexperienced crew (e.g. my kids) the one 'emergency' drill I teach them is to safely 'stop' the boat and go and transmit 'help' on the VHF, which is left on ch 16 (and take their finger off the button after speaking).

The crash stop is a simple procedure whereby even an inexperienced crew can take control of the boat and stop it from rushing onwards towards the rocks. (1) steer up towards and through the wind (2) sheet the main hard in. If you then leave the helm hard over the boat (most modern yachts) will continue to sail in circles, tacking and gybing harmlessly. You can then leave the helm and go below to use the VHF - and/or steer back to the MOB (with NO further adjustment of the sails).

 

[capnsensible]

That works very well. :encouragement:

 

[alant]

I don't see any reason to presume that. It wouldn't apply to singlehanded cases, or to effectively singlehanded (adult and child) ones, or to cases where the casualty died of a heart atatck on immesrion, or was dragged down by something heavy, or could not be recovered on boat, or drowned being dragged through the water on a tether ...

In other words, the claim that most MOBs who died would not have died if the crew had practiced MOB drill is really one which needs substantiating. Could point to a few MAIB reports, for example?

Did I say that?

 

[JumbleDuck]

Did I say that?

You said, effectively, that "most" "MoB's have been lost, because no practice procedures had been carried out". See post #87.

 

[alant]

You said, effectively, that "most" "MoB's have been lost, because no practice procedures had been carried out". See post #87.

Did I say 'all'?

 

[JumbleDuck]

Did I say 'all'?

No. and you'll note that I didn't either.

I don't see any reason to presume that. It wouldn't apply to singlehanded cases, or to effectively singlehanded (adult and child) ones, or to cases where the casualty died of a heart atatck on immesrion, or was dragged down by something heavy, or could not be recovered on boat, or drowned being dragged through the water on a tether ...

In other words, the claim that most MOBs who died would not have died if the crew had practiced MOB drill is really one which needs substantiating. Could point to a few MAIB reports, for example?

So, back to the matter in hand - can you substantiate your answer "most of them" to the question (which you posed) "how many MoB's have been lost, because no practice procedures had been carried out"?

 

[howard easton]

If you keep the boat close to casualty, you don't need a mob button.
Better to keep your eye on the casualty, than look at a plotter.
Go back to basics, stop thinking a marine equivalent of your ipad works best.

There is no way that you can do what you need to do in terms of boat handling whilst facing the stern and looking at a disappearing casualty. SWMBO might have eyes in the back of her head - I dont.

You have no alternative as a single hander but to mark the casualty location with a danbuoy, and then handle the boat to get back to him. Doing so under sail does complicate the manoeuvre so you need to drop sail and check you have no ropes over the side. You cant help the causualty with a rope round the prop. Then start the engine and motor back to the danbuoy.

I would be inclined to do all this before pressing the red dsc button. You dont want to be farting around with the dsc whilst drifting away from the causualty.

 

[lw395]

There is no way that you can do what you need to do in terms of boat handling whilst facing the stern and looking at a disappearing casualty. SWMBO might have eyes in the back of her head - I dont.

You have no alternative as a single hander but to mark the casualty location with a danbuoy, and then handle the boat to get back to him. Doing so under sail does complicate the manoeuvre so you need to drop sail and check you have no ropes over the side. You cant help the causualty with a rope round the prop. Then start the engine and motor back to the danbuoy.

I would be inclined to do all this before pressing the red dsc button. You dont want to be farting around with the dsc whilst drifting away from the causualty.

No question the dan buoy goes over the side first and foremost. No thinking, no options just do it immediately.
Actions beyond that might vary according to circumstances.

 

[Barnacle Bill]

There is no way that you can do what you need to do in terms of boat handling whilst facing the stern and looking at a disappearing casualty. SWMBO might have eyes in the back of her head - I dont.

Agreed, so as quick as you can, helm hard over to go through the wind, and simultaneously sheet the main hard in. You'll find that, after coming quickly round, the boat will go (slowly) almost wherever you want it to in that configuration, without touching the sails (except dead up-wind); go straight back to the MOB and keep close to / circling the MOB, keeping your eye on them - while you call the crew for help.

Try the manoeuvre - it works, and you realise there's simply no point in sailing away from the MOB - just stay with them.

Once you have the engine started, get rid of the headsail (drop, furl or just free the sheet) while going dead down-wind for a couple of boat lengths then turn back up-wind for the pick-up. It's at the down-wind stage that it's useful to have someone looking and pointing.

Put the engine in neutral when you're close to them - the prop is very dangerous.

 

[alant]

There is no way that you can do what you need to do in terms of boat handling whilst facing the stern and looking at a disappearing casualty. SWMBO might have eyes in the back of her head - I dont.

You have no alternative as a single hander but to mark the casualty location with a danbuoy, and then handle the boat to get back to him. Doing so under sail does complicate the manoeuvre so you need to drop sail and check you have no ropes over the side. You cant help the causualty with a rope round the prop. Then start the engine and motor back to the danbuoy.

I would be inclined to do all this before pressing the red dsc button. You dont want to be farting around with the dsc whilst drifting away from the causualty.

But your casualty will not be "dissappearing", if you keep the boat close to him & by turning after the crash stop, "getting back to him" is not that difficult. Why not try it before dumping good advice.

 

[JumbleDuck]

But your casualty will not be "dissappearing", if you keep the boat close to him & by turning after the crash stop, "getting back to him" is not that difficult. Why not try it before dumping good advice.

You make the assumption that the remaining member(s) of the crew can take immediate action. All lovely if everyone is in the cockpit; not quite so good if the other crew member is in the toilet when they hear a splash.

 

[alant]

No question the dan buoy goes over the side first and foremost. No thinking, no options just do it immediately.
Actions beyond that might vary according to circumstances.

No, the boat must be stopped first, then the danbuoy if you must.
Remember all this could be in big chop or even at night. The pissy little danbuoy light will be difficult to see, if found at all, unless you stay close. A mate was lost off South Africa, because the helm & off watch crew spent time trying to drop the stuff on the pushpit. By the time they turned the boat around he had gone, never recovered. This in broad daylight. Think of the 6 minute rule & work out how far you will have moved away, in the time you take for a supposedly simple task. Just as a matter of interest, time the deploying & ask if you could find the casualty other than in flat water. Don't forget, this is with only one person left on board.

 

[alant]

You make the assumption that the remaining member(s) of the crew can take immediate action. All lovely if everyone is in the cockpit; not quite so good if the other crew member is in the toilet when they hear a splash.

Even then still best to stop the boat moving further away.
Dropping a danbuoy in your scenario, might help you find the danbuoy, but if sailing at 5 knots, you will have moved 0.25 Nm in 3 minutes (463 metres) or 154 metres each minute. Even if wearing a LJ, not easy to find.