MOB - best sequence of steps with one person left aboard

Poey50 said:
I'm keeping an open mind on this -and all other feedback - but I know that checklists have been found to be useful for crisis management in medicine and aviation.
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Best checklist is simplicity.

Listen & learn.
Two other experienced sailors/instructors have stated the same simple procedure.
This isn't arrogance, but advising a system that works.
Checklists are fine, when you have the leisure to read & absorb, but MOB needs to be instinctive & I can't emphasise enough - SIMPLE.
 
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DJE said:
Just a thought but what about the MOB button on the plotter? On my boat that is at the helm whereas the vhf radio is down below.
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capnsensible said:
Sure. However, have sailed loadsa yachts. Perhaps 3 had that but nearly all others had hand helds.
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I have a command-mic in my cockpit wired to my main VHF DSC, fitted before my trip two years ago (TWO years already!).
Best and most useful addition to my gear. Well worth the money and really useful/convenient - in loads of situations.

I shall keep this thread and re-visit it regularly.
Being a (mainly) single-hander I need to be more than aware of dangers and procedures when I have crew(s) aboard.

Thank you all for all your thoughts, comments, criticisms and common-sense.

RW
 
colind3782 said:
Often wondered that...
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Have done that lifting a real (large) human with spi halyard on mast and it works if MOB wearing a harness or you can get a bowline round under their arms. I have been test-lifted by a bowline under armpits, and it's painful but better than dying. Before trying it people said it was either not practical or it would break your ribs. Even if it did that's fixable, death isn't.

But you need the halyard/harness or bowline attached. If MOB unable to affix you need someone else in the water unless a very low freeboard boat. Same applies to all the other lift options such as mainsheet, handybilly etc. I have spent a lot of time in the past practicing and then later teaching MOB recovery.
 
A few further thoughts - The original RYA reach-tack-reach SHOULD always work irrespective of conditions/rig etc. but is very reliant on a decent big danbuoy near the MOB as soon as there is any sea running or you have to drop a spinnaker before tacking. Even then there's a distinct chance of missing him.

Crash stop ALMOST always works to keep you at least close to the MOB: but some boats just won't heave to, and a constant series of circling gybes has it's own dangers. Before you start the engine be VERY VERY sure there are no lines in the water - especially if you crash-stop with spinnaker up. Nevertheless a crash stop is probably the best option overall.

If you know the boat and are confident a crash gybe won't break anything an immediate gybe is certainly often the fastest way of getting the boat back stopped next to the MOB. It's too dangerous to teach as a method but it is an option.

And remember every one of these "getting back" options is just the REALLY EASY BIT.....
 
jwilson said:
A few further thoughts - The original RYA reach-tack-reach SHOULD always work irrespective of conditions/rig etc. but is very reliant on a decent big danbuoy near the MOB as soon as there is any sea running or you have to drop a spinnaker before tacking. Even then there's a distinct chance of missing him.
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Reach-Tack-Reach is good if you are a sailing vessel and can't rely on an engine - The Crash tack approach usually assumes you can the continue the recovery under engine. But reach-tack-reach also assumes you have someone who can keep an eye on the casualty. Single handed it would be very hard to carry out the manoeuvre without losing sight of the MOB.
 
Thank you for all the replies. There's plenty of food for thought here. I've got all I need from the discussion but do carry on if you wish.
 
Really useful thread and a lot to think through with lots of good ways to get back to the MOB and hoist them aboard if they are too weak

I still don't see how one could attach a fully unconscious MOB to the boat from a high freeboard - at full stretch lying on the deck I would be less than half way down to the water.

Otherwise the simple steps makes sense to me apart from completely disagreeing with those who say that they would do anything before throwing lifebelt/dan bouy. I know how quickly an object disappears when you look away and I want something visible to come back to or I'd find myself crash stopping then looking round and round for the MOB unless I was very lucky.
 
bedouin said:
Reach-Tack-Reach is good if you are a sailing vessel and can't rely on an engine - The Crash tack approach usually assumes you can the continue the recovery under engine. But reach-tack-reach also assumes you have someone who can keep an eye on the casualty. Single handed it would be very hard to carry out the manoeuvre without losing sight of the MOB.
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Crash stop, doesn't need engine, I have got back to MOB after circling, with genoa still tight & main still sheeted in.
As mentioned before, if you can get just upwind of casualty, letting fly all sheets, will allow the boat to drift down to MOB.
It's all just a matter of practice.
Don't wait until it's real to try it, otherwise a coroners court will be the result.
 
RupertW said:
Otherwise the simple steps makes sense to me apart from completely disagreeing with those who say that they would do anything before throwing lifebelt/dan bouy. I know how quickly an object disappears when you look away and I want something visible to come back to or I'd find myself crash stopping then looking round and round for the MOB unless I was very lucky.
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It depends on circumstances. On my boat the danbuoy is attached to the lifebelt, light and drone (as required by offshore rules). That would probably take a couple of seconds to deploy. If I am at the helm I can crash tack the boat in that time. If I am not at the helm then by the time I had got to the danbuoy it could be too far away.
 
prv said:
Despite what I said above in post 20, I wouldn't make the alert an immediate action. It's something I'd do when I had time, which I won't have while doing immediate panic crash-stop manoeuvres and trying to throw a line to a nearby MOB. If I can spare the ten seconds or so it takes to send a DSC man overboard alert (the radio is at the helm, I'd still be steering) then it probably means I've got separated from the casualty and am motoring back towards them, or worse, I've lost sight and am searching.

Thus the need for time in which to send the alert pretty much also defines at what point it would happen.

As for launching the Jon Buoy, I'm honestly not sure how that would pan out. Both it and the crash-stop are instinctive actions, both nominally "immediate". Which would take priority in the event, I don't think I can honestly know until it happens. Like soldiers wondering how they'll react the first time they're shot at...



I'd suggest that the only value of a checklist here is that you'll keep reading it while bored on watch, helping it sink in. In the event, you won't have time to carefully work your way down a written list.

Pete
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Try to keep a wife's mind off checklists, hers might be as follows
1) where did he leave the car keys?
2) Did our holiday insurance cover this?
3) Are his LA premiums up to date?

;)
 
RupertW said:
I still don't see how one could attach a fully unconscious MOB to the boat from a high freeboard
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If he's wearing a lifejacket with some kind of strop or becket on it (even my cheap manual one does), then in much the same way as you'd attach the boat to a mooring that has a ring rather than a pendant. I don't know how you do that, but I have one of these:

0701723_moschettone.jpg


When you hook something, it slides out of its bracket on the boathook and the gate closes.

If unconscious and not wearing a lifejacket I guess you could try and drop some kind of strop or bight of line around them, but things are pretty bad at that point...

Pete
 
prv said:
If he's wearing a lifejacket with some kind of strop or becket on it (even my cheap manual one does), then in much the same way as you'd attach the boat to a mooring that has a ring rather than a pendant. I don't know how you do that, but I have one of these:

0701723_moschettone.jpg


When you hook something, it slides out of its bracket on the boathook and the gate closes.

If unconscious and not wearing a lifejacket I guess you could try and drop some kind of strop or bight of line around them, but things are pretty bad at that point...

Pete
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Good thought - I was looking at variants of that at the boat show but didn't buy one as we pick up mooring buoys less than once a year as there are more anchorages than buoyed areas where we sail. And when I do I lassoo I'm afraid. However on the rare occasions we use finger berth I have thought of one for hooking a cleat from the bow or side. Your suggestion for MOB is a strong argument for one anyway.
 
alant said:
Crash stop, doesn't need engine, I have got back to MOB after circling, with genoa still tight & main still sheeted in.
As mentioned before, if you can get just upwind of casualty, letting fly all sheets, will allow the boat to drift down to MOB.
It's all just a matter of practice.
Don't wait until it's real to try it, otherwise a coroners court will be the result.
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The first time I was introduced to crash stop was in the 1980s by a Yachtmaster Examiner who sailed a trad long-keeler himself. We were in a 45 ft deep fin racing yacht at the time, after multiple attempts he failed to get the boat back in contact with the MOB (a real person) without starting the engine. On another boat - a 32 ft long-keeler it worked very reliably if you counted to about 5 before crash-stopping. You really do need to practice with individual boats.
 
jwilson said:
The first time I was introduced to crash stop was in the 1980s by a Yachtmaster Examiner who sailed a trad long-keeler himself. We were in a 45 ft deep fin racing yacht at the time, after multiple attempts he failed to get the boat back in contact with the MOB (a real person) without starting the engine. On another boat - a 32 ft long-keeler it worked very reliably if you counted to about 5 before crash-stopping. You really do need to practice with individual boats.
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Of course, "the more I practice, the luckier I get".
 
dslittle said:
My wife and I have discussed this a number of times and that is our conclusion. We clip on!!!
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Exactly - one reason I've learnt some things on this thread is that I've always concentrated on prevention rather than emergency equipment and techniques. But if I can spend hours and hours on anchor threads even though I probably won't change my anchor or technique now, then spending a little time of this threads seems the least I can do.

If either of us ever did fall overboard it would be without a lifejacket as when we are in lifejacket mode we are always clipped on too.
 
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