KAL
Well-Known Member
+1 for livesaver from Duncan Wells. We have these fitted to all LJs on board and a handy billy ready to deploy on the shrouds, using a kleimheist loop made of Dyneema.
MOB - best sequence of steps with one person left aboard
- Thread starter Poey50
- Start date
Poey50
Well-Known Member
Helpful replies. This is my list of steps so far (given the conditions set out in my opening post).
1. Release Jonbuoy (the only MOB recovery device that looks like it might work)
2. Crash tack to stop boat.
3. Hit the DSC distress button
4. Start engine and reverse to casualty (if possible) or furl genoa, centre or drop main if not and motor to casualty approaching from downwind.
5. Use throw rope to connect with casualty if needed.
6. Attach Jonbuoy module to boat.
7. 6:1 handy-billy (routinely stored extended on spinnaker halyard - unless flying spinny) then connected to Jonbuoy module.
8. Guardrail lashings cut (knife kept routinely on sprayhood frame.
9. Lift casualty aboard.
10. Cancel distress if all is well.
1. Release Jonbuoy (the only MOB recovery device that looks like it might work)
2. Crash tack to stop boat.
3. Hit the DSC distress button
4. Start engine and reverse to casualty (if possible) or furl genoa, centre or drop main if not and motor to casualty approaching from downwind.
5. Use throw rope to connect with casualty if needed.
6. Attach Jonbuoy module to boat.
7. 6:1 handy-billy (routinely stored extended on spinnaker halyard - unless flying spinny) then connected to Jonbuoy module.
8. Guardrail lashings cut (knife kept routinely on sprayhood frame.
9. Lift casualty aboard.
10. Cancel distress if all is well.
alant
Well-Known Member
Crash stop, harden right in on mainsheet to avoid boom hitting crew left on board, helm hard over & boat will circle the casualty within a few boat lengths, enabling a line to be thrown. Do NOT ever sail off from the casualty. Great if practicing RYA type stuff in a flat Solent, but a disaster if offshore/at night/in any sort of chop. Get the casualty close to the boat & lash securely alongside. Crew should be clipped on at all times. Then & only then decide how to recover on board.
If you would like me to demonstrate at any time, please ask. This can be done on any boat, 32' or 67' +.
PS,
If the casualty is unconscious, without using engine, loose all sheets when upwind & boat should drift down onto casualty. Can, if no lines in water, use engine in ahead & astern to control drift onto casualty. Then lash alongside & then decide how to recover. Do not at any time, lose sight of casualty by sailing or motoring away, even with debris or Danbuoy, you will not find them again. Might work if a dedicated spotter, but with limited or single crew, impossible.
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prv
Well-Known Member
For the same reasons as you, I think the handybilly hung on the end of a halyard (spinnaker halyard in my case) is the best option.
For comparison, I winch my dinghy on deck using the halyard alone. According to the spec it weighs 27kg, plus 12kg of engine, plus to make the maths easy let's add a generous 11kg for the fuel, miscellaneous gear left on board and a bit of water in the bottom, for a total of 50kg. The dinghy is moderately hard work to hoist on board using the halyard winch. I don't know what my usual sailing mate weighs, but when I had a similar build I weighed 123kg and he's taller than me. In wet clothes and oilies I could easily believe 150kg. I can't really imagine lifting three times the weight with the same winch, especially not on a rolling deck when I also have to tail it and there's no jammer. Single-part lift is absolutely out.
Unshackling the boom and letting it swing around freely, especially with the sail left set which would be my preference if possible, is obviously a silly idea in a seaway. That's out.
So hanging a pre-prepared tackle from the end of the cleated-off halyard is the only plausible option if we're going to be lifting rather than climbing. I have the same concerns about tangling, so mine is overhauled to its full length and then stopped-up like an old-fashioned jib at 6" intervals with strong sewing thread (not sailmaking thread, which I think might be too strong). Hopefully that would prevent the parts falling through each other and getting tangled, and then break open when it starts to lift. The top ring has a tag attached to it saying that it goes on the spinnaker halyard; currently it's just sharpie on white tape but I've been meaning to make up some better tags with clear diagrams on. The hauling part is coiled up, and has threaded onto it a block with a snap-shackle to go onto the slotted toe-rail (also labelled). So depending who's being lifted (and who's doing the lifting) I might try just using the six-part tackle initially, but if it needs to go to a sheet winch then the toe-rail block will lead it there. There's a small carbine-hook projecting sideways from the top ring which could optionally be clipped onto a shroud if there's a problem with the whole rig sliding one way or the other along the hull.
The bottom hook is very obvious, as it's huge - it came from a scaffolder's fall-arrest harness and is designed to hook around large pieces of metalwork, but the tip is still small enough to find its way through a becket or D-ring. Hopefully usable by someone with cold hands if they're still somewhat under control, otherwise at least easy to work with in confused and boisterous conditions, no fiddly double-acting gate or anything. If our casualty is wearing a harness or even sitting in the Jon Buoy, we'll use the hook on its own, but in the same bag is also a large canvas strop, as used for crane rigging, which can have its end loops put on the hook and go round someone not wearing any special gear, much like for a helicopter winch. This might even be the way to go for someone in a lifejacket but not cooperative, as it could be easier to wangle round them than finding the lift point. There is also the option of the boathook-mounted mooring grabber. Also worth noting that I have a short length of webbing between the hook and the bottom block, as it's natural to grab onto whatever's lifting you at that point, and if someone grabs the falls of the tackle together then it ain't going to work...
All that said,
1) there's still plenty of scope for cocking it up in a real emergency, and
2) in many conditions the stern swim platform and ladder is going to be the simpler and more sensible choice!
Pete
alant
Well-Known Member
While any single crew is doing all that, he/she will not be looking at the casualty, so see #23 above.
It needs to be simple, so stop complicating it. A surviving crew, will possibly be in shock/panic mode & will not remember.
Bobc
Well-Known Member
+1
Poey50
Well-Known Member
You wouldn't chuck any floats or danbuoy in the water or send a distress alert?
Not looking to complicate things. I think a well drilled routine backed up by a clear simple checklist inside the sprayhood would help to contain my wife's anxiety (or mine if vice-versa).
prv
Well-Known Member
There's a lot to like about that system, but I sighed a little as soon as they mentioned an auto-inflating component. That immediately increases the complexity, cost, and probably bulk of the thing, making it less attractive.
It seems like you could get very nearly the same benefit with a simple bit of polypropylene or other buoyant fabric, possibly with a tiny bit of foam sewn in. All it has to do is stream in the water giving you something to get a boathook on. The mesh-like snaggy shape of the existing target would still work well in fabric.
Pete
capnsensible
Well-Known Member
Spot on. Also mayday, call, handheld in cockpit very handy. Have prsctised this, like you, hundreds!
prv
Well-Known Member
Despite what I said above in post 20, I wouldn't make the alert an immediate action. It's something I'd do when I had time, which I won't have while doing immediate panic crash-stop manoeuvres and trying to throw a line to a nearby MOB. If I can spare the ten seconds or so it takes to send a DSC man overboard alert (the radio is at the helm, I'd still be steering) then it probably means I've got separated from the casualty and am motoring back towards them, or worse, I've lost sight and am searching.
Thus the need for time in which to send the alert pretty much also defines at what point it would happen.
As for launching the Jon Buoy, I'm honestly not sure how that would pan out. Both it and the crash-stop are instinctive actions, both nominally "immediate". Which would take priority in the event, I don't think I can honestly know until it happens. Like soldiers wondering how they'll react the first time they're shot at...
I'd suggest that the only value of a checklist here is that you'll keep reading it while bored on watch, helping it sink in. In the event, you won't have time to carefully work your way down a written list.
Pete
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prv
Well-Known Member
Range?
Remote station for a 25w DSC radio with masthead antenna even more handy
Pete
Poey50
Well-Known Member
I'm keeping an open mind on this -and all other feedback - but I know that checklists have been found to be useful for crisis management in medicine and aviation.
prv
Well-Known Member
It depends on the speed of the developing crisis. Of course pilots have emergency checklists, but if the plane is stalling I'd expect the immediate response to come from trained instinct, not reaching for a list that says "push the control column forwards". Similarly if I'm steering and see someone fall over the side I'm going to be hauling the bow up towards the wind almost before I've finished saying "oh shit!"
I suppose I can imagine a list to refer to if things degenerate to the point of losing contact with the MOB, and it all goes into slower time. A reminder to call the Coastguard, maybe some suggestions on search patterns?
Pete
Poey50
Well-Known Member
I don't really disagree with any of that. I think there's a place for drills, automatic responses and checklists. All three had a place when the US Airlines plane was landed on the Hudson River for example.
BlueSkyNick
Well-Known Member
For just one other person left on board, especially a less than strong, capable and fit person, KEEP IT SIMPLE.
1. sheet in main to centre boom
2. crash tack and lock helm (tiller to windward, or wheel to leeward) so that boat continues to sail around in circles, not hove to.
3. Get help. This is the most effective action, with best chance of successful outcome.
4. Repeat 3. until successful.
1. sheet in main to centre boom
2. crash tack and lock helm (tiller to windward, or wheel to leeward) so that boat continues to sail around in circles, not hove to.
3. Get help. This is the most effective action, with best chance of successful outcome.
4. Repeat 3. until successful.
chrishscorp
Well-Known Member
Having done 10 years driving ribs at my club for safety boat cover for dinghy racing do not underestimate the task involved of getting someone out of the water, we always found it was a 2 man job getting someone onto a rib with soft forgiving low sponsons. The order on my boat is danbuoy and light away, red button on the DSC, start engine, then worry about getting back to the casulty.
DJE
Well-Known Member
Just a thought but what about the MOB button on the plotter? On my boat that is at the helm whereas the vhf radio is down below.
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alant
Well-Known Member
Only if easily done, without losing sight of casualty.
Don't forget, whilst you are doing all this, including running down below to the VHF, your boat could be sailing at 5knts, so in 3 minutes you are about 1/4 mile away. Will a single crew then be able to see the casualty & return, even if a debris trail?
My best advice is never to leave the casualty, stay close.
The quickest way of doing this, is as said above, a crash stop, harden up mainsheet to control boom, do not touch genoa sheets or roll up genoa (this will take time & eye off casualty & may be beyond physical capability of crew/wife).
Keep it simple, so the crew is not overwhelmed with stuff to do.
Spinning the boat by putting the helm hard over (& keeping it there) can seem rough treatment & boat will lurch, but remain within talking distance, allowing crew to 'relax' somewhat, before moving onto throwing a line etc.
Your wife, will not read & implement a checklist, whilst in anxiety/panic mode.
Take your boat out & practice my advice, get your wife to do it, then no need for checklist.
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alant
Well-Known Member
If you keep the boat close to casualty, you don't need a mob button.
Better to keep your eye on the casualty, than look at a plotter.
Go back to basics, stop thinking a marine equivalent of your ipad works best.
alant
Well-Known Member
Agreed!