ML5 Medical for Commercial Endorsement - optician?

[Ensign]

I have asked my own GP about completing an ML5 medical for me. They have not seen this form before but quoted 'more than £30', which seems entirely reasonable.
They have suggested that I get an optician, separately, to do the eye tests. But there is no place on the form for the optician to be named or to sign anything, so it seems like this would be unusual.
Do GPs normally do the eye tests for the ML5? Or do you get an eye test elsewhere and bring it to the GP?

 

[matthewriches]

My normal doctor completed mine along with my driver medical renewal in June for about £100 for the 2, nothing else needed, just sent it all away.

 

[prv]

What form are you looking at? The one I've just found online does indeed have the optical bits on their own page with a space for an optician's details at the bottom: page 5 of https://assets.publishing.service.g...chment_data/file/733918/MSF_4112_Rev_0818.pdf

The explanatory notes on page 2 say that the doctor can either do it themselves or ask you to have it done separately.

For what it's worth, I get the ENG1 for work and the doctor has always done the eye bits themselves; I imagine they'd do the same if presented with an ML5. So it depends on the doctor and whether they're competent and equipped to do a bit of basic opticianing. Since it's a paid job you don't need to stick with your NHS doc and could ask around for someone who can do the whole lot in one go. The ENG1 price is regulated as I understand it, but ML5 ones can vary.

Pete

 

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

The RYA/MCA have a list of doctors who do these tests. There is a standard charge.

 

[prv]

The RYA/MCA have a list of doctors who do these tests. There is a standard charge.

That’s for the ENG1. Any doctor can do the ML5.

Pete

 

[Ladybirdgaffcutter]

Just a tip, if you have any doubt, insist that the eye tests (Ishihara or something) are done in natural daylight, which they are designed for. (I'm presuming the ML5 also requires Ishihara? )
. My MCA approved quack in Pompey got his secretary to do them by her desklight and I failed, it was inconvenient not getting my ENG1 stamped off that day.
I had to go to the MCA head office in Southampton and do the superior, official 'lantern test' which I passed.

 

[Ensign]

What form are you looking at? The one I've just found online does indeed have the optical bits on their own page with a space for an optician's details at the bottom: page 5 of https://assets.publishing.service.g...chment_data/file/733918/MSF_4112_Rev_0818.pdf

The explanatory notes on page 2 say that the doctor can either do it themselves or ask you to have it done separately.

Not exactly sure where I downloaded mine from, but your link seems like the latest version and solves the separate optician problem. So thanks!

 

[Kelpie]

Simplest solution is to find your nearest MCA-registered doctor (i.e. capable of issuing ENG1), and get them to do your ML5. They will know what they are talking about and the whole thing will be as straightforward as possible.

I had an ML5 done by a normal GP who acted as though he had never seen the thing before, and I ended up failing it- despite having passed both ML5 and ENG1 medicals in previous years with no problems or restrictions.

 

[Uricanejack]

If you have fine young eyes with no issues. Just got to the MCA doctor or for the other form your regular doctor.

The MCA form presumably used the STCW standard for unaided vision.
I recently found out its 20 40. Not sure exactly what 20 20 or 20 40 means. Except I used to be 20 20 had no need for glasses. Now I need them to read I think my distance vision is still fine and dandy but I can now only read the line for 20 40. So the Doc recommended I go see an optician before I try and take the next test. So I can apply for a dispensation ahead of time if required.

It’s quite common for old farts. To get a restriction requiring prescription glasses. But it’s a PIA and can take a while to process and requires an opticians report.

 

[Skylark]

Generally, the ML5 is valid for 5 years (of course, there are exceptions) and the ENG1 is only 2 years. iirc. ML5 can be done by any doctor but there’s a box to tick “are you the applicamts GP?”.

My GP charged me £135 for the exam and another £15 for signing the certificate. I told him that ENG1 has a set, lower fee to which he replied “go and get it done then but if the doctor needs to refer to the GP (him) for any information I should expect a bill for his private, professional service”

 

[webcraft]

Sounds like most of you need a better relationship with your GP. All mine asks for for an ML5 is a donation to the local car share charity.

- W

 

[Leighb]

Just a tip, if you have any doubt, insist that the eye tests (Ishihara or something) are done in natural daylight, which they are designed for. (I'm presuming the ML5 also requires Ishihara? )
. My MCA approved quack in Pompey got his secretary to do them by her desklight and I failed, it was inconvenient not getting my ENG1 stamped off that day.
I had to go to the MCA head office in Southampton and do the superior, official 'lantern test' which I passed.

That is important, and integral to the design of the Ishihara colour vision test. To be precise it should be used in "North facing daylight" to avoid any colour cast affecting the result. I was fortunate in that my consulting room faced North for most of my career so did not have to find another room to carry out the test.

 

[prv]

That is important, and integral to the design of the Ishihara colour vision test. To be precise it should be used in "North facing daylight" to avoid any colour cast affecting the result.

Thanks, that’s interesting.

Fortunately of only academic interest to me - I’ve had ENG1s done in a windowless consulting room and a basement, and an offshore oil and gas medical done in a cubicle in the back of a warehouse, and always whizzed through the eye tests at top speed with no issues.

Pete

 

[laika]

I've had an ml5 done twice by a GP. One charged me about £80 (14? years ago) which I think was some kind of standard fee for medicals for insurance and professional purposes which the practice set, one didn't charge me. In neither case did I have to do the eye test separately.

 

[graham]

One hundred quid for my last ML5 at the GP . He did the eyetest as well . Check the form carefully twice I have had to go back because 2 different doctors couldn't read the instructions apparently.They wrote stuff in the box that must only be written in if you fail even though I passed.

 

[[70521]]

Sounds like most of you need a better relationship with your GP. All mine asks for for an ML5 is a donation to the local car share charity.

It's different down south Webby, GPs are small business.

 

[Solent sailer]

my certificate has expired and havent got round to renewing it but for the last one i found a "private" doctor that worked close to Avonmouth docks, he specialised in medicals for divers/mariners great service did all the eye tests and other bits there and then £50. dident need to refer to my doctor and knew all the forms as he was doing it all the time.

 

[PilotWolf]

Not sure where you are but would recommend you talk to Abermed in Southampton (assuming they still exist), 02380213490, 19/23 Canute Road, Southampton. sO14 3FJ.

I've been out of the U.K. for a few years but we used them for all our crew requiring medicals including myself. Quick, knowledgable and helpful.

Here in the USA I've met with chaos. Went to one doctor for an FAA and USCG medical - one exam but 2 fees. Another signed off both those and a DOT form for a commercial truck license for the cheapest of all three. Some can do one of the exams and not others, some can do some and some all! Last time I renewed my ENG1 I had to go from California to Florida or Rhode Island for an MCA approved Doctor - one coast to another with associated costs and loss of earnings.

And I just remembered another oddity. My USCG medical is valid for 5 years provided I don't have any STCW qualification as that make my license international and now my medical is only good for 2 years. Bit like the first aid requirement of STCW 95, the qualification doesn't need renewing until 5 years but the first aid qualification expires after 2 years.

W.

 

[laika]

Simplest solution is to find your nearest MCA-registered doctor (i.e. capable of issuing ENG1), and get them to do your ML5. They will know what they are talking about and the whole thing will be as straightforward as possible.

Another thought about why this might not be ideal if you have a good relationship with your GP. Firstly from the eye test point of view at least it is not necessarily the case that an MCA-approved doctor will have an inside-out knowledge of the requirements. In my ENG-1 the doctor seemed to desperately want to fail me for my uncorrected vision (my corrected vision is fine and I always have at least 2 pairs of glasses (usually 3) when sailing) and had to re-read the instructions several times before conceding that there was nothing she could fail me for.

Secondly, a friendly GP familiar with any pre-existing conditions may save you a lot of time. My ENG-1 took 5 months to get as the doctor insisted on a letter from a consultant who had been treating me more than 10 years previously for a declared condition even though the "more than 10 years" explicitly made me eligible for the ENG-1 and straight forward medical logic would have dictated that it wasn't something that would make me keel over on passage. However a "don't care" attitude between doctor and her incompetent secretary meant the letter repeatedly didn't get sent.

 

[tudorsailor]

FWIW, here is the BMA (slightly dated) guidance relating to fee for theses certificates

https://www.bma.org.uk/advice/employment/fees/seafarer-fitness

Fees for seafarer examinations and medical referee
ENG 1 Seafarer medical exam £80.00
Medical referee (per review) £280.00
Medical referee for attending casework meeting £400.00

Effective date: 1 April 2014

Under the Merchant Shipping (Medical Examinations) Regulations, seafarers working on UK registered ships of more than 1,600 grt and all holders of UK certificates of competency (the UK qualification for merchant ship officers) are required to hold a current certificate of medical fitness.

Only medical practitioners approved for the purpose by the Secretary of State may issue the medical certificates.

The fee for the examination and issue of the certificate has to be paid by the seafarer and is prescribed in the regulations.

The Maritime and Costal Agency (MCA) appoints medical referees who are senior occupational health consultants located around the UK, to carry out reviews of decisions made by appeals doctors, where a seafarer is dissatisfied.

The MCA is responsible for paying referees for undertaking this work.

TudorSailor