ML5 medical certificate and the MCA

[AntarcticPilot]

When I did my Geology O Level we had a colour blind test, and if you failed, which I did, you could ask for help in the thin section exam part, which basically meant the teacher told you what each mineral was. Very useful.

I didn't start Geology until University; so few people did Geology at school level that it was assumed that no one had. Only a large school would be in a position to teach it as a separate subject. This was at the time when Comprehensive Education was only just starting, so most undergraduates came from Grammar Schools, which were generally quite small - fewer than 100 students per year. I don't know what provision would have been made for colour blindness at University, but I presume some was - one of my crystalline state supervisors was colour-blind and had to keep reminding us not to colour code our diagrams! But colour blindness would be a serious handicap for anyone doing petrology; the ability to judge quite small changes in colour could be important. There were ways around some of them (I'm far too rusty to remember them), but the first quick look at a slide where the colours told you at a glance see what range of refractive indices was on display often gave you a quick insight into the nature of the rock. I remember spending many hours staring down a microscope looking at slides from the teaching collection!

 

[KeithMD]

this Medical Certificate is in part to try and ensure that these engaged in Commercial Fishing are fit and healthy , so capable of comanding a Fishing Vessel ;

Blimey! When I was a wee lad growing up near a fishing port, all the fisher folk I knew smoked like chimneys and drunk like, err, fish. And that was the women as well as the men. Not sure many of them would pass that kind of medical exam now. Different times for sure.

 

[Capt Popeye]

Blimey! When I was a wee lad growing up near a fishing port, all the fisher folk I knew smoked like chimneys and drunk like, err, fish. And that was the women as well as the men. Not sure many of them would pass that kind of medical exam now. Different times for sure.

Yes certainly so , my thoughts are that if Medicals are required for In shore Fishing Folk , then we will see a reduction in Inshore Fishing Filk out there , as from my experiences , them folk do not appear to be most healthy ; just hope that I am wrong

 

[ylop]

There are already Eyesight Tests dor Car Drivers , plus certain Medical conditions require informing the DVLA of ; My guess experience of them on 2 wheels is , wear a High Vis or similar so as to be seen , plus obey the Rules of our roads more

Re for your thoughts on people on two wheels I won’t drag the thread further off topic other than to say the responsibility for seeing vulnerable road users lies with those driving the bigger vehicle. Don’t fall into the trope of using “high vis” and “follow the rules” to needlessly obfuscate the point I was making - there will be people driving who should wear glasses and don’t (and possibly don’t know it) as well as those who shouldn’t be driving for various medical conditions which they have either not reported to dvla or who have not seen a doctor for a medical in many years so have no idea that they shouldn’t be driving.

My point was there is no requirement at 17 or 70 to provide actual evidence of medical fitness to drive a car. You make a self declaration*. This is different for commercial vehicle drivers (as it is for commercial skippers). There are undoubtedly accidents caused on our roads by drivers who are unfit, and so if an authority was looking to clamp down on a public safety issue they’d be far better to invest their time there than on recreational sailers.

*only if you tick certain boxes would the opinion of medical experts be obtained. Even then you don’t usually need to undergo a specific medical examination, so you may have other undiagnosed conditions.

 

[Capt Popeye]

Re for your thoughts on people on two wheels I won’t drag the thread further off topic other than to say the responsibility for seeing vulnerable road users lies with those driving the bigger vehicle. Don’t fall into the trope of using “high vis” and “follow the rules” to needlessly obfuscate the point I was making - there will be people driving who should wear glasses and don’t (and possibly don’t know it) as well as those who shouldn’t be driving for various medical conditions which they have either not reported to dvla or who have not seen a doctor for a medical in many years so have no idea that they shouldn’t be driving.

My point was there is no requirement at 17 or 70 to provide actual evidence of medical fitness to drive a car. You make a self declaration*. This is different for commercial vehicle drivers (as it is for commercial skippers). There are undoubtedly accidents caused on our roads by drivers who are unfit, and so if an authority was looking to clamp down on a public safety issue they’d be far better to invest their time there than on recreational sailers.

*only if you tick certain boxes would the opinion of medical experts be obtained. Even then you don’t usually need to undergo a specific medical examination, so you may have other undiagnosed conditions.

Bit of Fred Drit Ere ; Hi there ylop well might suggest that the reasons you state for Car Drivers needing testing most probably also apply to them on 2 wheels , or even 3 wheels , as its a generalisation of the driving Public (us Public) is it not ?

Yes my point about High or Better Vis clothing is most apt , also might add , having the Car , Bike running lights on , at all times , like the Volvo car do , i recall ; It all adds up to an improvement by each other ; which must be a good thing I recon ?

ON POINT again ; I have required to have 3 yearly medicals for over 20 years now , owing to loosing sigh in one eye ; My other (only eye) has to meet all the requirements of someone who has both eyes functining ; I also have certain medical issues brought on by the ageing process , effecting Hearing , Balance , plus another Medical issue that effects most of my active functioning abilities ; I have to pass or satisfy the DVLA that I am still able to be a safe driver to retain my Driving Licence , on 2 or 3 or 4 wheels , plus Small Van

In my experience its ONLY the DVLA who can make the final call on anyones ablity to hold a Licence , as they alone have the ability , knowledge , experience required to make that decision ; Thank goodness

 

[Straightman21]

For commercial fishermen, remaining at sea for more than 72 hours, over 24 metres, passenger carrying [tripping boat] = ENG1
Every other fisherman from 30th November 2023 = ML5
Will likely devastate the coastal fleet and their coastal communities unless some level of common sense and pragmatism allowed [eg Grandfather rights]

 

[ylop]

For commercial fishermen, remaining at sea for more than 72 hours, over 24 metres, passenger carrying [tripping boat] = ENG1
Every other fisherman from 30th November 2023 = ML5
Will likely devastate the coastal fleet and their coastal communities unless some level of common sense and pragmatism allowed [eg Grandfather rights]

That argument doesn’t make sense to me.
If there are so many commercial fishermen who will fail the ML5, are they not already a liability at sea: presumably either they die afloat from their own ill health or risk harm to others. Both would seem in themselves to be pretty devastating to the small communities involved too. But what you seem to be suggesting is not than one person in a village would be unable to renew their fishing license but massive groups of people who would be considered so unhealthy they can’t get permission to operate. 1/2 the things on the list would stop you getting a car license. A lot of the others probably make it impractical to actual do stuff like haul nets/pots etc.

 

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

Humm , just came accross an artical that appears to state that Commercial Fishermen (and Women ?), will need a current ML5 medical certificate from later this year , endorsed by the MCL I understand ; this Medical Certificate is in part to try and ensure that these engaged in Commercial Fishing are fit and healthy , so capable of comanding a Fishing Vessel ;

Might ask , (cause I do not know) if there is anything in the 'pipeline' similar with Commercial Yacht Skippers , or Independent Skippers , who take on trips for clients ?

Must say this was all new to me , so just how well known is this ?

Thank you CP

PC dictates that we should now refer to them as "fishers", but casually googling a reasonably large number of images of said fishers reveals that they are, bye and large, men, the only women represented being occupied at collecting seaweed or shellfish, or selling fish at market stalls!

 

[Capt Popeye]

PC dictates that we should now refer to them as "fishers", but casually googling a reasonably large number of images of said fishers reveals that they are, bye and large, men, the only women represented being occupied at collecting seaweed or shellfish, or selling fish at market stalls!

Yea well , as PC is an option these days we certainly have a choice , in what /which we say , NB freedom of speech and opinion etc : my guess is that 'Fishermen' will prevail as describing /refering to them folk that Fish commercially : guess that 'Women Fishermen' will prevail as when refering to 'Commercial Fishermen'

 

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

Yea well , as PC is an option these days we certainly have a choice , in what /which we say , NB freedom of speech and opinion etc : my guess is that 'Fishermen' will prevail as describing /refering to them folk that Fish commercially : guess that 'Women Fishermen' will prevail as when refering to 'Commercial Fishermen'

These Women Fishermen will probably have specific requirements with regard to personal pronouns

 

[oldmanofthehills]

..... My point was there is no requirement at 17 or 70 to provide actual evidence of medical fitness to drive a car. You make a self declaration*. This is different for commercial vehicle drivers (as it is for commercial skippers). ...

Note quite, but even to drive a private 7.5tn vehicle after age 70, my application must be endorsed by my GP. As both my children plus their cousin managed to move house last year sucessfully, I decided I dont need that category licence for hous removal anymore so let it lapse.

Personally looking at some of the numpty driving round here, I think compulsory eye tests and sanity tests might well be useful at all ages. Drivers round here cant see no entry signs and regularly drive up one way streets.