Mixing Grotamar 82 & Soltron

[Still Grinning]

As per title.

Is it a good / bad idea to mix both of the above additives in a diesel tank? Grotamar to kill off any bugs before they do something nasty (no evidence of diesel bug so far (touches lots & lots of wood)), together with Soltron to disperse any water to give them nothing to grow in?

I can find nothing specifically mentioned anywhere, but it struck me that neither of these seems to be classed as snake oil, and both have slightly different functions. Of course, there might be a very good reason why not.....

What say the informed collective?

 

[ghostlymoron]

I'm sure they won't react adversely.

 

[Quandary]

Soltron was developed in the Mechanical Eng. Dept of QUB (Dr. Gordon BlaIr?) at the time they were developing two stroke racing engines for Eastern European factories, the lab technician was Ray McCullough, who was a very good rider indeed. I have always believed in Soltron and their enzyme theory since as these guys were more than competent and their bike won a lot of races.
A rare instance of University research that was almost useful?
I would suspect that there may be compatibility issues with a biocide.

 

[dom]

If you're looking to double up you might want to have a quick read of this which us Premier Marinas lot received a few years back:

http://www.marine16.co.uk/acatalog/Premier_Marinas_letter_to_berth_holders.pdf

 

[boatmike]

If you're looking to double up you might want to have a quick read of this which us Premier Marinas lot received a few years back:

http://www.marine16.co.uk/acatalog/Premier_Marinas_letter_to_berth_holders.pdf

Yes indeed. I researched this last year when I had fuel contamination problems and using the two together will indeed render the Soltron inert.
Without criticising Soltron it will not kill an infection. It does not claim to. What it claims to do is "eat" the solids in suspension caused by the bug. Personally my conclusion was that if you have the bug you need to kill it by using a biocide and then polish the fuel by using effective filtration. If the contamination is really bad, as mine was, you need to empty the tank and clean it mechanically to get rid of the debris. No treatment will remove serious fouling from the tank. Assuming you have relatively clean tanks then my choice was to use a biocide treatment to stop the bug returning. I am sure it helps that suppliers dose their tanks with Soltron to avoid pumping undesirable solids into your boat but personally I believe that when it is in the boat the fact that your fuel is constantly filtered and returned to your tank when the engine is running will keep it free of solids if you have used a biocide to kill any bugs that appear. That assumes you use your boat of course! The suppliers situation is somewhat different in that large quantities are often held in stationary tanks without circulation for long periods. In this case perhaps the Soltron is beneficial. When it gets to my tank heavily dosed with biocide though the enzymes will very soon be as dead as the bugs. Everyones situation is different though and that is just my opinion. What isn't an opinion is that mixing the two just won't work. That's a fact!

 

[pvb]

Soltron was developed in the Mechanical Eng. Dept of QUB (Dr. Gordon BlaIr?) at the time they were developing two stroke racing engines for Eastern European factories, the lab technician was Ray McCullough, who was a very good rider indeed. I have always believed in Soltron and their enzyme theory since as these guys were more than competent and their bike won a lot of races.
A rare instance of University research that was almost useful?
I would suspect that there may be compatibility issues with a biocide.

Depends which "Soltron" you're talking about! Most sources say that it was developed in Japan by Solpower. Many years ago, I used to use Soltron, until there were so many look-alike versions of "Soltron", all in different packs, that it became impossible to know whether you were buying a decent product or a fake. As a result, I moved on to other products, and now use Marine 16 or Grotamar. I can't see any harm in mixing any of these bug killer products.

 

[Halo]

I asked Soltron and they said not to mix the two.

 

[dom]

Keeping diesel tanks clean is a tricky business and a pain in the neck if it all goes wrong. Here’s a few comments I have previously posted from a friend of mine in the UK oil business:

1. The red/white debate is essentially a red herring. The dye pertains solely to the duty status of the fuel and has no direct influence on its composition. 'Nominal diesel' may contain a significant spectrum of distillates and other bio ingredients rendering different diesels as different as lager and stout!

2. A current EU Directive specifies that road diesel must contain 7% bio diesel (Fatty Acid Methyl Esters, or FAME in the lingo – link below). As I understand it FAME loves water and so do bugs. This highly hygroscopic nature of FAME treated diesel renders it unsuitable for the marine environment ....even if the diesel has no free-water contamination at the time of fuelling.
http://www.biofuelstp.eu/factsheets/fame-fact-sheet.pdf

3. It is permissible under EU Law to use FAME-Free diesel in a marine environment and Esso produces a FAME-free (<1%) offering from its Fawley plant. Wessex Petroleum (A Mobil Co I think) then mixes this @ 1:10,000 with Soltron and sells it on to many Southern UK marinas as a specialised product. Anecdotally I would say this works as I know many Portsmouth boats hanging around all winter with half full tanks, and which are none the worse in the spring.​

4. ALWAYS treat diesel bought from doubtful suppliers (Salcombe, Alderney, dodgy barges, etc) with a punchy biocide and ALWAYS note the dets of the diesel (see next point) being put into your tank.

5. Regularly check for water in the primary filter and occasionally pipette a little diesel from the bottom of the tank to make sure all is well. Any sign of cloudiness should trigger instant remedial biocide shock-dosing, which can apparently be better focused if the diesel type is known.
​

Hope this helps a bit

 

[Halo]

Keeping diesel tanks clean is a tricky business and a pain in the neck if it all goes wrong. Here’s a few comments I have previously posted from a friend of mine in the UK oil business:

1. The red/white debate is essentially a red herring. The dye pertains solely to the duty status of the fuel and has no direct influence on its composition. 'Nominal diesel' may contain a significant spectrum of distillates and other bio ingredients rendering different diesels as different as lager and stout!

2. A current EU Directive specifies that road diesel must contain 7% bio diesel (Fatty Acid Methyl Esters, or FAME in the lingo – link below). As I understand it FAME loves water and so do bugs. This highly hygroscopic nature of FAME treated diesel renders it unsuitable for the marine environment ....even if the diesel has no free-water contamination at the time of fuelling.
http://www.biofuelstp.eu/factsheets/fame-fact-sheet.pdf

3. It is permissible under EU Law to use FAME-Free diesel in a marine environment and Esso produces a FAME-free (<1%) offering from its Fawley plant. Wessex Petroleum (A Mobil Co I think) then mixes this @ 1:10,000 with Soltron and sells it on to many Southern UK marinas as a specialised product. Anecdotally I would say this works as I know many Portsmouth boats hanging around all winter with half full tanks, and which are none the worse in the spring.​

4. ALWAYS treat diesel bought from doubtful suppliers (Salcombe, Alderney, dodgy barges, etc) with a punchy biocide and ALWAYS note the dets of the diesel (see next point) being put into your tank.

5. Regularly check for water in the primary filter and occasionally pipette a little diesel from the bottom of the tank to make sure all is well. Any sign of cloudiness should trigger instant remedial biocide shock-dosing, which can apparently be better focused if the diesel type is known.
​

Hope this helps a bit

Dom many thanks for that.. I did not know that bio diesel was hygroscopic and will not be putting any more road diesel in my tank.
In the past I have noticed that some of the road diesel I have bought from a supermarket has been cloudy with a green tinge. Heaven knows what that means!

 

[sailorman]

Dom many thanks for that.. I did not know that bio diesel was hygroscopic and will not be putting any more road diesel in my tank.
In the past I have noticed that some of the road diesel I have bought from a supermarket has been cloudy with a green tinge. Heaven knows what that means!

So how do our Continental manage with only bio being available to leisure craft

 

[Quandary]

So how do our Continental manage with only bio being available to leisure craft

My research in to condensation issues was associated with construction but I am convinced that in the UK, particularly the N. and W. the rapid variations in both temperature and humidity to which we are subjected are a lot worse than most places in Europe including Scandanavia.

 

[Still Grinning]

Keeping diesel tanks clean is a tricky business and a pain in the neck if it all goes wrong. Here’s a few comments I have previously posted from a friend of mine in the UK oil business:

1. The red/white debate is essentially a red herring. The dye pertains solely to the duty status of the fuel and has no direct influence on its composition. 'Nominal diesel' may contain a significant spectrum of distillates and other bio ingredients rendering different diesels as different as lager and stout!

2. A current EU Directive specifies that road diesel must contain 7% bio diesel (Fatty Acid Methyl Esters, or FAME in the lingo – link below). As I understand it FAME loves water and so do bugs. This highly hygroscopic nature of FAME treated diesel renders it unsuitable for the marine environment ....even if the diesel has no free-water contamination at the time of fuelling.
http://www.biofuelstp.eu/factsheets/fame-fact-sheet.pdf

3. It is permissible under EU Law to use FAME-Free diesel in a marine environment and Esso produces a FAME-free (<1%) offering from its Fawley plant. Wessex Petroleum (A Mobil Co I think) then mixes this @ 1:10,000 with Soltron and sells it on to many Southern UK marinas as a specialised product. Anecdotally I would say this works as I know many Portsmouth boats hanging around all winter with half full tanks, and which are none the worse in the spring.​

4. ALWAYS treat diesel bought from doubtful suppliers (Salcombe, Alderney, dodgy barges, etc) with a punchy biocide and ALWAYS note the dets of the diesel (see next point) being put into your tank.

5. Regularly check for water in the primary filter and occasionally pipette a little diesel from the bottom of the tank to make sure all is well. Any sign of cloudiness should trigger instant remedial biocide shock-dosing, which can apparently be better focused if the diesel type is known.
​

Hope this helps a bit

Very many thanks for all the detailed responses, and specifically the information in the above.

Out of interest I only use Shell Nitro Road diesel - does that make any difference at all to what I do? No other easy to get at source (I am on a swinging mooring).

To date I have only used Soltron, as supplied by ASAP (appears to be an original rather than a copy, but how do I know?), and have never seen anything untoward in any of my filters. Having said that, I cannot easily get into the tank for sampling from the bottom, nor do I have a visible water trap on my primary filter. I only have a Nanni 21HP diesel which usually does around 50 hours a year or less (it is a sailing boat after all!). I use less than 100 litres / year.

Is the considered opinion I would do better to switch to Grotomar 82 (of which I have a bottle), instead of the Soltron?

Or....?

 

[pvb]

Is the considered opinion I would do better to switch to Grotomar 82 (of which I have a bottle), instead of the Soltron?

Or....?

That's what I did; I also use Marine 16. Both Grotamar and Marine 16 were recommended in a PBO test, both performing better than Soltron. The test used Grotamar 71, the forerunner of 82. Although I'm usually fairly distrusting of magazine test reports, this one was done by a laboratory and the photos of the test samples look fairly convincing. If you haven't seen the test, you can download it here - https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/bt7ttx8lxp0iy3u/Marine 16 PBO Test.pdf?dl=0

 

[alancollins]

I have been using Fuel Set for some time now and so far with no problems. It never seems to get a mention in discussions about fuel additives and I wonder why. Is it very different from Grotamar and the rest?

 

[No Regrets]

Soltron do say not to mix. However, it didn't do well in the tests, so wouldn't be on my shopping list!

Grotemar or Marine16 is all you need.

However, after greasing my deck fittings, water ingress has reduced to the point a small dose appears to work fine. I suspect I wouldn't have had a problem with Diesel Bug if these were greased in the first place!!

 

[Still Grinning]

Right-O! I think I will use up the Soltron in the jerry cans (where the Shell Nitro can be stored for a month or two at a time, then use the Grotomar in the boat tank.

Anything wrong with that idea? As I say, I see no real easy way for me to get anything other than road diesel to the boat.

 

[No Regrets]

Sounds good...

 

[Monique]

Old Thread but FWIW.... Grotamar 82 is the product used by Dassault Aviation in their Falcon Jets.

These business jets are susceptible to diesel bug; commercial aircraft far less affectedas they fly up to 4500 per year. The fuel pumps deliver 50% more fuel than needed so they self polish everytime the machine is flying...