Mixed weekend at Conwy..balance needed!

[norrisg]

Being new to boating, gradually picking up my tickets, and considering boat purchase options, it was great to get invite to my mates yacht in Conwy marina along with another pal who has a 40ft'er in Mallorca, and no experience here. I was hoping to be able to bleed them dry for knowledge and hopefully get out to Menai this morning coming back on this evenings tide. In the end i'm pretty pleased we didn't.

Marina looks nice (dear !!) and we had a good meal and drinks in the Mulberry, in fact it ended up a very late night. Up early this morning to pretty heavy rain, forecast till 12. Helm has no cover, and by the time it cleared up the gate was up, skipper decided no go (worse for wear)!

The whole thing led to several observations:
His sailing yacht needs near perfect conditions to get out (no rain, wind but not too much, small motor very limiting? etc)
The skipper was clueless and gave me no confidence in him at all - glad we didn't go out I think he's dangerous, especially planning on coming back after dark with his experience!
They both thought my aspiration (once experienced) of being able to take a boat to the IOM was ambitous and would need pre-longed near perfect weather to be considered i.e. not going very often (which I don't follow its only 55m and 3 hours away - my instructor thinks its a doddle).
I wonder how he ever gets any use of his boat and seems very stressed with it all (hence my view his knowledge is lacking).

So whats the purpose of this post!? Well can anyone offer any balance?

Can I get more use from a power boat than my mate does (inside helm and decent power!) or would I be destined to pay a bomb to sit in the marina?
Is my IOM or Dublin plan alive or does it need dropping ( i'm thinking less than 30ft boat)
Have I had a bad experience with his stress levels or am I considering putting myself into a world of mither !!?

Can anyone offer a perspective because right now I think the money needs to stay in the bank lol!
cheers!

 

[Danfarry]

I came from a sailing background. I started off at a few months old and have completed thousands of miles sailing offshore and inshore, both racing and cruising. I've sailed to the med twice and cruised extensively around the Balearics and the Spanish and Portuguese coast.
When I moved up north I raced dinghies locally but eventually decided I wanted to get my family involved, they just didn't take to dinghies so I decided to go bigger. After looking at marinas from Caernarfon to Whitehaven, I fancied Conwy. I then bought the cruising guides for north wales and did loads of research online. I just couldn't see how sailing could be done with the tides around north wales. The river at Conwy flows on the ebb at up to six knots, the swellies at up to ten knots! Just around Anglesey you can have three knots against you. With a headwind and tacking angles, I was looking at VMGs of maybe two knots. All the sailors told me to use the tide to my advantage but with work and family, I just didn't have the time.
Instead I went for a motorboat, it means I can pretty much go where I want when I want. Caernarfon is easily under two hours away for example, in a sailing boat it can be a two tide/two day trip away!

A good example was the 1st of November. It was a Sunday, high tide was early afternoon. Weather was brilliant, it was the hottest November day on record. We nipped out to Puffin island to see the seals then tied up to Beaumaris pier and went and got fish and chips. We blasted back to Conwy and a great day out on the water was had by the whole family. We could not have done this in a sailing boat.

 

[C08]

A few observations.
Your friend who was good enough to have you aboard for the weekend can do without being slagged off in public,particularly having had a hangover.
He showed some judgement in not going out despite perhaps feeling under pressure to go out with you.
Conwy is not hard to enter at night particularly with a chart plotter.
He may not have convinced you with his competence and maybe he gets a little stressed, but we all do sometime. When you have more experience you may have a better understanding of his mindset. Cut him a bit of slack.
Regarding the IOM yes this is a nice weekend sail from the straits; a MOBO in 3 hours you are probably looking at three hundred pounds in fuel. OK if you wish to go in that direction but many prefer to sail for 8 hours and use a few pound in fuel. It may be that a sailing boat is a better "apprenticeship" than a motor boat for a first boat as you need to pay much more attention to tidal flows and passage planning than just point a give it the gun!
Good luck with your boat hunt/purchase and safe sailing.

 

[BruceK]

Well, Graham. I did offer from a Mobo's perspective and gave you other advice and an offer to chat. Offer still stands by the way. And as for the fella not wanting to go out, did you see the seas? 3m swell and a 6 second period? Trust me, you have an awful lot to learn, you'd have been chunking your guts before you got to the fairway. Anyway, on a more pleasant note, the weather was so bad I lost my canopy. Thank god the radar arch caught it, too bad the VHF aerial got a kink in it. So you wanted to go out. Bless.

Anyway, you will get a helluva lot more out of a powerboat in Conwy. If you are a working schlebb time is your enemy, and only a powerboat can make Conwy Channel, The Swellies and Caernafon Bar in a Single tide. Poor yachties take 3 days. ION is certainly doable, but I'd suggest a bit more experience to temper the gung-ho attitude before the Irish sea bites you. Take a look. Bloody good laugh, very good lesson on IOM

That's James btw. He's in Conwy too. Say hi

 

[Danfarry]

I agree with C08. Conwy isn't a difficult entrance as it is well buoyed. Wait until you see the swellies, well it's what you can't see that is the problem! The skipper made a good choice, I was in Conwy for 10am, the rain looked like it had just stopped but the swell off Llandudno on the way in didn't look pleasant due to the NW winds.
The skipper is responsible for everyone on board, taking novices out must be daunting. How about learning to sail and race dinghies first, this will give you a sixth sense for wind direction and boat trim.

 

[Danfarry]

Is that Ocean Drive at the front? If so, it is for sale with boats.co.uk, three and a bit big ones should get it in to your possession.
It's a big boat and even that is moving around a fair bit.

See the video below, this was a calm day in Conwy but there is always a bit of chop if there is any wind. As you can see, we are going quite fast but also moving around quite a bit....

http://youtu.be/Yp-eK0pT4Ww

 

[BruceK]

Another thing. Berthing in Conwy does not mean you have to go into the marina. I berth on a river pontoon. With the exception of elecricity I have everything plus a truly magnificent view to boot and I pay 1/6th the marina prices for what I consider a much better berth.

 

[BruceK]

Is that Ocean Drive at the front? If so, it is for sale with boats.co.uk, three and a bit big ones should get it in to your possession.
It's a big boat and even that is moving around a fair bit.

See the video below, this was a calm day in Conwy but there is always a bit of chop if there is any wind. As you can see, we are going quite fast but also moving around quite a bit....

http://youtu.be/Yp-eK0pT4Ww

And this is what you can expect with just a F5 -6

 

[norrisg]

Thanks for the replies, must have given the wrong impression. Not going out was spot on, I certainly wasn't gung ho or encouraging him. Fair doo's badly worded. It does appear impertinent to comment on his ability - but you had to be there.

I have done some training in the swellies and intend to do a LOT more before tackling anything..

Yes, offer from BruceK - very grateful, definitely take you up on that at some point, thanks

 

[Danfarry]

And this is what you can expect with just a F5 -6

Isn't that when Roy got lost in the channel out of Conwy?! Maybe it's not that easy!

 

[BruceK]

Roy ALWAYS get's lost in the channel and even though SWMBO is telling him where the channel is it doesn't compute. Personally I think it's more a case of him forgetting to fill up on steering hydraulic fluid.

 

[Seastoke]

no one went out to day so skipper got it right ,also i cant see you getting many invites on board .

 

[Seastoke]

bruce must be mad he went out in that f6

 

[BruceK]

Someone had to babysit you Roy

Talk about trial by fire

 

[IDAMAY]

Thanks for all the posts, particularly the videos which reminded us of the many happy and a few sometimes not so happy days we spent in our early boating years out of Conwy Marina. The Irish Sea can be inhospitable at times but we had some great cruises in Sealine sports boats around the 30 foot mark and made it to IoM, Dublin, Belfast and up to Scotland in a 290 so the OPs ambitions aren't at all out of order. It's just a matter of picking and choosing the time to go.

At a weekend we often used to go through the Swellies and across Caernarfon Bar to anchor at Llandwyn Island or Port Dinlaen. Great memories. Welsh readers will hopefully forgive any spelling errors from an Englishman abroad!

 

[BruceK]

Thanks for the replies, must have given the wrong impression. Not going out was spot on, I certainly wasn't gung ho or encouraging him. Fair doo's badly worded. It does appear impertinent to comment on his ability - but you had to be there.

I have done some training in the swellies and intend to do a LOT more before tackling anything..

Yes, offer from BruceK - very grateful, definitely take you up on that at some point, thanks

Just let us know. I'm at the boat every weekend, though it's in maintenance at the moment. Even if I'm not, I live 6 minutes from the boat, so a hop down to meet is very easy. Show you the harbour. Cant understand why everyone wants to slum it in a marina ghetto. Caravan parks from hell imho. River is the place to be :encouragement:

 

[bigwow]

Cant understand why everyone wants to slum it in a marina ghetto. Caravan parks from hell imho. River is the place to be :encouragement:

Why do you keep visiting then?

 

[BruceK]

Why do you keep visiting then?

On the offchance of finding an open funbox / Slumming it wid ma homies / Evangelise on the Light that is a river berth / Charity

agg man! anyone of a host of reasons. The people are nice mainly. Some great people in the marina, just a bit too cramped for me. I mean when you started up the genny and scared off the gulls I cringed at the noise. Out on the river, nobody would have heard, or cared. Anyway, I can't berth in the marina. Too many things for me to bash in to. Need a can opener to get in. Uh-uh. Dangerous.

 

[Mike k]

Being new to boating, gradually picking up my tickets, and considering boat purchase options, it was great to get invite to my mates yacht in Conwy marina along with another pal who has a 40ft'er in Mallorca, and no experience here. I was hoping to be able to bleed them dry for knowledge and hopefully get out to Menai this morning coming back on this evenings tide. In the end i'm pretty pleased we didn't.

Marina looks nice (dear !!) and we had a good meal and drinks in the Mulberry, in fact it ended up a very late night. Up early this morning to pretty heavy rain, forecast till 12. Helm has no cover, and by the time it cleared up the gate was up, skipper decided no go (worse for wear)!

The whole thing led to several observations:
His sailing yacht needs near perfect conditions to get out (no rain, wind but not too much, small motor very limiting? etc)
The skipper was clueless and gave me no confidence in him at all - glad we didn't go out I think he's dangerous, especially planning on coming back after dark with his experience!
They both thought my aspiration (once experienced) of being able to take a boat to the IOM was ambitous and would need pre-longed near perfect weather to be considered i.e. not going very often (which I don't follow its only 55m and 3 hours away - my instructor thinks its a doddle).
I wonder how he ever gets any use of his boat and seems very stressed with it all (hence my view his knowledge is lacking).

So whats the purpose of this post!? Well can anyone offer any balance?

Can I get more use from a power boat than my mate does (inside helm and decent power!) or would I be destined to pay a bomb to sit in the marina?
Is my IOM or Dublin plan alive or does it need dropping ( i'm thinking less than 30ft boat)
Have I had a bad experience with his stress levels or am I considering putting myself into a world of mither !!?

Can anyone offer a perspective because right now I think the money needs to stay in the bank lol!
cheers!

genuinely I think you should do that for now and enjoy your mates' hospitality when you can ( unless he reads your post lol) and learn more about the reality of boating and the practicalities . That way ,when you are more aware,you will be able to make an informed decision, keep yourself safe, if you go for it and enjoy it.
I would think the decision to stay put was based on good reasoning and common-sense. I am a relative newbie ( nearly 5 years now) and I still get the wobbles now and then .
Good luck

 

[GrahamM376]

Can anyone offer a perspective because right now I think the money needs to stay in the bank lol!
cheers!

Can't help but offer a different perspective to most of the comments above. We sailed out of Conwy for around 12 years with various sail boats from 26 - 38 ft.

It's a good place to sail from with access for shallow draught around HW +/- 4 hrs and, if was a bit lively in the bay, we would often go down the Straits. The Swellies aren't such a problem "with" tide, we've done it a few times 2-3 hours after slack and, contrary to one post above, it's easy to drop the mooring push the tide down the channel, get down the Straits and over the bar on one tide - under sail. Marina boats would have to leave on earlier tide and pick a mooring up due to gate times. Isle of Man and Ireland were regular destinations and, with a yacht, we were quite happy going out in conditions which most power boats wouldn't.

For boats on moorings, the North Wales Cruising Club run a launch service and there are regular sailing events and cruises in company so the inexperienced can join in knowing help is there in the unlikely event it's needed.