Mixed feelings about survey done today

[M1800R]

Hello guys,

As you know I am new to boating and finally found the boat I thought I like to go for given my experience and budget.

I have seen a Sealine 215 Envoy, built in 1987 according to the dealer with a fairly new engine on it an decent looking drive.

The hull, apart for being nearly 30 years old looks in good condition, however, the surveyor today pointed out a few comments and I must admit, I have this thing in the back of my head that made the drive back home from the marina a bit uncomfortable.

1- humidity readings where on late 30s and at one point 49 near the engine side on the outside lower part of the hull. Upper part was late 18 average. The thing is that she has been out of the water for nine months according to the dealer, are these readings normal? Me thinking that is these reading are percentage from 0 to 100 then 49 is a bit high after nine months.
2-the boat is called 1 thing, however, there is marking evidence that it was called something else before as on the paint there are clear markings where words used to be and they are a different shade of color, like not being bliched by constant sun. Is there a reason for changing the boats name? Is this like changing your standard number plate for a private one in the boats world?

3- last but not least, on the right stern side there is evidence of a reference/inscription number plaque being there before, but the boat has been painted over on the middle bit since and so a new series of numbers appears to be carved on the body using a sharp object, perhaps engraving tool.

Then again, could this be that the plaque was old and rusty and when the side of the hull was painted they removed the plaque and engraved the numbers on the hull?

In a cars world, the minute you see the chassis or engine number has been tampered with you walk away or at least I would and in this particular boat I can see evidence of previous name and the numbers perhaps altered, may be nothing but I have this thing on my head.

The sale is being conducted through Boatshed and I will trust they are doing the necessary to make sure that all the paper work is up to scratch but I can help thinking the worst.
Is there a website or data base I can check the past of this boat?
Thank you all and kind regards.

 

[Jurgen]

Hi There,

Congratulations on getting the boating bug!

Cant advise on the first point but as far as point

2, not unusual to change a boat name, we are about to do this with our new boat, a good session with cutting compound and polish should resolve the worst of it but only you will know.
3, Not sure about a boat built in 1987 but most boats have the HIN number engraved into the GRP on the underside of the swim platform or transom.

Am sure an expert on point 1 will be along soon.

Good luck :encouragement:

 

[mlines]

I cannot comment on the humidity readings as I do not know anything about the,

Item 2. Boats can be called whatever you like and can be changed as often as you like. Each previous owner will have changed it to commemorate their dog/wife/girlfriend/boyfriend/children

Item 3. Sounds a bit like the Hull Identification Number, normally engraved in the plastic not on a removable plate. This is the equivalent of the chassis number of a car and this should be consistent on the paperwork.

Martin - (oops - beaten to the answer)

 

[M1800R]

Thank you very much Juergen.

To be honest I am hoping this is just me being a bit too careful or paranoid and nothing else. I would like everything to be ok but can't help thinking I have not received the survey report yet and I am having doubts. Since this is my first boat I would like everything to be in order as I don't know what to look for or things to be aware off. I have been reading posts and watching you tube tutorials like mad because I am very keen to learn all there is to know about the boat, engine, drive and get to know the craft inside and out, without it a bonding is not possible. I love everything with an engine on and I know every single corner of my bike and car. I know where noises comes from and whether they are normal or not but when it comes to boats I am naked and I think that is what makes me uncomfortable, the unknown.
Once again, thank you for taking the time and reply to my questions.
Best regards.

 

[M1800R]

I cannot comment on the humidity readings as I do not know anything about the,

Item 2. Boats can be called whatever you like and can be changed as often as you like. Each previous owner will have changed it to commemorate their dog/wife/girlfriend/boyfriend/children

Item 3. Sounds a bit like the Hull Identification Number, normally engraved in the plastic not on a removable plate. This is the equivalent of the chassis number of a car and this should be consistent on the paperwork.

Martin - (oops - beaten to the answer)

Hi Mlines, thank you for your reply.
This is the thing I love about this forum, the felling you are not alone and the fact that although we don't know each other there is always help at hand, thank you, for that I am very grateful.
I will wait for the result of the survey and in the meantime I will do some research regarding data bases etc.
Best regards.

 

[Jurgen]

I know where noises comes from and whether they are normal or not but when it comes to boats I am naked and I think that is what makes me uncomfortable, the unknown.
Once again, thank you for taking the time and reply to my questions.
Best regards.

this is VERY NORMAL, every time I hear something that sounds odd my spidey senses kick in, most of the time it's nothing but I know what you mean.

We are currently buying a new to us boat and we feel the same way lol

 

[Kawasaki]

M1800R, I would not get my underwear in a tangle over a 30 odd year old boat ref humidity readings, names and numbers
I would be more concerned about the engine and outdrive being spot on
Those are the Areas that might cost you.
Make sure by sea trial the engine starts easily and idles properly
The outdrive raises and lowers etc and has no leaks
The gearbox and controls are smooth and She pops up on the Plane ok
Your average Surveyor will not check engine condition etc unless specifically asked to
One would expect a certain amount of 'wetness' associated with a plastic boat of that age
Check out stuff like the bilge pump/pumps work, the wipers, electrics all the wiring is safe and satisfactory
Fuel lines in good condition and valves and seacocks open and close properly.
In essence, will She be safe sound and reliable on the water
More than 1 thing to think about but that's boat buying!!!

 

[dpb]

M1800R, I would not get my underwear in a tangle over a 30 odd year old boat ref humidity readings, names and numbers
I would be more concerned about the engine and outdrive being spot on
Those are the Areas that might cost you.
Make sure by sea trial the engine starts easily and idles properly
The outdrive raises and lowers etc and has no leaks
The gearbox and controls are smooth and She pops up on the Plane ok
Your average Surveyor will not check engine condition etc unless specifically asked to
One would expect a certain amount of 'wetness' associated with a plastic boat of that age
Check out stuff like the bilge pump/pumps work, the wipers, electrics all the wiring is safe and satisfactory
Fuel lines in good condition and valves and seacocks open and close properly.
In essence, will She be safe sound and reliable on the water
More than 1 thing to think about but that's boat buying!!!

Big +1
Have a mechanic inspect and test the engine.
As long as the hull and structure is basically sound, which your surveyor should confirm or otherwise, there is nothing apart from the engine that has the capacity to cost you serious money.

 

[oldgit]

There are fibre glass boats built in the the 1960s still bobbing about in the water.My concern regards the hull would be no serious cracks in the hull gelcoat which indicate flexing of the underlying layup.Nothing to sink the boat, but could be the subject of a discussion regards price. Normally the result of the boat being driven rather hard in rough seas. Have seen this on a much larger and posher boat, a Targa 37 it can happen in all sorts of fast boats.
As others have mentioned, priority No 1 sould be condition of outdrive and engine. Make sure the seller has emptied his wallet regards servicing or sure as eggs is eggs you will be picking up his bills at some point in the future .

 

[superheat6k]

You are approaching one of the two happiest days of owning a boat - the day you buy it and sometime later the day you sell it. Natural to be hesitant or feel a bit crestfallen when a professional has given the view without the rose spectacles on.

The moisture readings are a bit high - a decent reading will be close to the adjacent area above the waterline, but as said a small boat, so most of what you are buying is the engine.

Try to place yourself in the position of your buyer when its your turn to sell. If it has been for sale 9 months now could be the same when you come to sell. Not a problem as long as you are aware of this, and for many the first boat is the cause of the addiction and you want something larger sooner than you think.

As for re-naming there is a lot of folklore about appeasing King Neptune. Apparently you have to commit a gift to him, and make some form of vow, but after any trace of the prior name have been removed from the boat, including any item or piece of paper the name may have been written on.

Remember the broker is being paid by the vendor, so his loyalties are to him. Insist upon the RYA standard form of sale and check you have at least 5 - 10 years proof of prior ownership. The Bill of sale should state the boat is sold free of encimbrances and lien.

Enjoy, but if you change your mind - how about a Turbo 36 ?

 

[M1800R]

this is VERY NORMAL, every time I hear something that sounds odd my spidey senses kick in, most of the time it's nothing but I know what you mean.

We are currently buying a new to us boat and we feel the same way lol

Thank you for this.

Good luck to you too with your new boat.

 

[M1800R]

Thank you Kawasaki and dpb.

The engine to be hones looks like new. I am not an expert but looking at it she looks fantastic, no sign of rust, cracking on the hoses and the electrics looks good too. The batteries were a bit low and the lights would not come on under battery power only when connected to shore line. This is odd as I though that the batteries would charge up while connected to power line.
The drive looks in good condition too. It is a volvo penta and the bellows where flexible too. The propeller has a few small dents like it could have come into contact with something like a river rock as she was on fresh water. For peace of mind I have asked an engineer to have a look at the engine, drive and prop as ideally anything that needs doing should be done while she is out of the water. I guess it is best to wait for the survey and read it a few times to make sense of everything that was sound and follow any recommendations.
Once again, thank you for your advice.
Kind regards

 

[M1800R]

There are fibre glass boats built in the the 1960s still bobbing about in the water.My concern regards the hull would be no serious cracks in the hull gelcoat which indicate flexing of the underlying layup.Nothing to sink the boat, but could be the subject of a discussion regards price. Normally the result of the boat being driven rather hard in rough seas. Have seen this on a much larger and posher boat, a Targa 37 it can happen in all sorts of fast boats.
As others have mentioned, priority No 1 sould be condition of outdrive and engine. Make sure the seller has emptied his wallet regards servicing or sure as eggs is eggs you will be picking up his bills at some point in the future .

Thank you oldgit,

Engine, drive and prop are being checked tomorrow by the engineer at the marina and he should comeback with the good and bad points. I don't expect nothing huge apart from oil, filters, zinc and drive oil. The bellows where in apparent good condition but if the engineer is taking the drive out for the sake of £100.00 I may as well change them.

Man, this is the closest I have been to a mental breakdown, and I thought I was tough.

 

[Dill et Bound]

M1800R the boys are giving good advice as usual.
Boatshed are good when it comes to taking on a boat for sale[ loads of paperwork ]
Superheat is right about the moisture, but it is still not that significant,[moisture is unlikely to sink your boat] and its 30 years old.
Kwakers is right, its the fundamentals that are important. Trim tabs, Drive, Engine.
I have an issue with surveys, 80% of the text will be writing the surveyor out of any responsibility for the other 20%.
And there will be a lot of advice about Seacocks and Fire Extinguishers [ Its only ever going to sink or catch fire ]
You need to have a Survey,but !!!
I have great faith in simple condition reports, and taking someone with you, who knows what they are looking at, and most importantly explaining it to you..


If you are getting it at the right price,your worries are a little less.
But you are considering entering into boat ownership, and the bills that go with it !
You will need to be brave! Very Very Brave!!

 

[M1800R]

Thank you Superheat6k

On the contract/agreement (that I have yet to sign) the broker did not mention the RYA standard form of sale, she just mentioned the Bill of sale. I presume this is not the same, this is just like the deeds of the boat and a declaration from the owner that there is not incumbencies on the boat.
Am I correct?

Regarding the Turbo36, I think I would be punching a bit above my weight. lol

 

[DazzyWoo II]

As above - get a marine engineer to inspect the engine & the drive. New engine does not necessarily mean new drive. I recommend Volvo Paul - I expect he will be along in a minute Or I can PM you his details. The report may allow you to negotiate repairs that exceed the price of the report.

Re: humidity readings - ask the surveyor its its a concern - that's what you are paying him for I'd also ask for a plain English, off the record view on whether the model is a good example of its type.

Also... recommend www.sealineforum.co.uk - suggest you post there, and you'll get loads of feedback. You might even come across someone who knows the history of the boat.

 

[M1800R]

M1800R the boys are giving good advice as usual.
Boatshed are good when it comes to taking on a boat for sale[ loads of paperwork ]
Superheat is right about the moisture, but it is still not that significant,[moisture is unlikely to sink your boat] and its 30 years old.
Kwakers is right, its the fundamentals that are important. Trim tabs, Drive, Engine.
I have an issue with surveys, 80% of the text will be writing the surveyor out of any responsibility for the other 20%.
And there will be a lot of advice about Seacocks and Fire Extinguishers [ Its only ever going to sink or catch fire ]
You need to have a Survey,but !!!
I have great faith in simple condition reports, and taking someone with you, who knows what they are looking at, and most importantly explaining it to you..


If you are getting it at the right price,your worries are a little less.
But you are considering entering into boat ownership, and the bills that go with it !
You will need to be brave! Very Very Brave!!

Hi, thank you for this.
I know exactly what you mean. In one week I have paid surveyor, Powerboat level 2, potentially decent size mechanics bill and insurance proposal, on top of that mooring fees to come lifting the boat for the sea trial and I have not even purchase the thing yet or started the season.
I think "very brave" is an understatement. lol
Kind regards

 

[M1800R]

As above - get a marine engineer to inspect the engine & the drive. New engine does not necessarily mean new drive. I recommend Volvo Paul - I expect he will be along in a minute Or I can PM you his details. The report may allow you to negotiate repairs that exceed the price of the report.

Re: humidity readings - ask the surveyor its its a concern - that's what you are paying him for I'd also ask for a plain English, off the record view on whether the model is a good example of its type.

Hi DazzyWoo II
Please feel free to pass on my details, I don't mind at all.
The broker did not mention that the drive came with the engine and I am sure if that was the case they would have use that as a sales pitch.
The humidity readings are my major concern. I did ask him if he thought there was an issue with this and he said not as long as it was no more than 50 (bear in mind the highest was 49 at the lowest point on the hull) but he said there was not signs of structural damage or any other issues. I also asked him off the record if looking at the entire package he thought I was getting a good deal for the money or paying to much and he said the boat of that class, age and condition normally goes for the price I am paying.
To be honest, I don't think he would have given me his honest opinion or personal opinion but such is life.
Kind regards

 

[aquapower]

Thank you Superheat6k

On the contract/agreement (that I have yet to sign) the broker did not mention the RYA standard form of sale, she just mentioned the Bill of sale. I presume this is not the same, this is just like the deeds of the boat and a declaration from the owner that there is not incumbencies on the boat.
Am I correct?

Regarding the Turbo36, I think I would be punching a bit above my weight. lol

Its an MCA bill of sale most brokers use. One is available from RYA but never seen one used yet.

 

[oldgit]

The single most important Item on the boat. ?

Those BELLOWS.....Have they have been changed in past 2 years ..and you want proof,not a mumbled "Think so", even better hopefully more recently.
An inexpensive unremarkable little bit of rubber tube held on with a couple of stainless bands and possibly the single most critical piece of kit on the boat.
Failure of this bit of £50.00 item could cost you thousands......check it out.
Ideally an invoice from the local VP man detailing change of both exhaust and U/J bellows, change of oil and perhaps even shaft/gearchange seals and of course new oil in gearbox.
These are items which need doing/checking at regular intervals.