Missing yachtswoman in South west.

jimi said:
I think I said "increase" not "decrease", if you had any experience at all you must be aware of the remarkably common problem of even relatively experienced people not being aware
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Jimi,

I have crossed the Channel 24 times to date, only the last couple with any GPS aids etc, also sailed from Chichester to Falmouth regularly in a 22' boat with self and crew and sailed with chums from Scotland to South of France; how about you ?

I always make a point upon crew joining the boat about watch-keeping 360 degrees, it's very easy to neglect 'what's coming up behind', as maybe the Ouzo crew found to their cost.

On the first season on our boat, in the Western Solent my father was on the helm; I said " Dad, there's a submarine coming up behind us ! "----" Yeah, Right " ----then Mum joined in, " Look, there really is a sub behind ! "

Dad thought we were joining in on the joke, then the Oberon class submarine went past at quite a speed.

Always keep a look out behind.

Andy
 
OTOH a passenger who is less experienced than you gives you a great deal more responsibility.
An inexperienced crew may worry you more than the voyage itself.
You can take risks with your own life, but might not want to make that decision for other people.
I don't think I would take anyone who hadn't done at least a few night hours, and I could trust them to at least steer a course or sail the boat upwind.
But someone who could let you sleep for two hours morning and evening would be a real asset.
 
Now that we've moved on to mitigating the risks, it is worth remembering that the safest form of sailing is to sit at home reading about it......

We've had about 5 pages on passage plans (sorry, partly my fault) and 60ish pages of other speculation - but that's all it is, speculation and guesswork. Unless some sort of evidence turns up (unlikely) that's all we've got. Some interesting topics got an airing, but otherwise none of can know what happened - so maybe it's time to move on?
 
Aside from tangential discussions, the nub of the thread appears to be......................... on the balance of probabilities was she
a) a competent sailor who met with some catastrophic unforseeable event ,
or b) a fantasist with no real small boat skipper experience and all the over
confidence that only ignorance can bring ?

IMHO one of the most telling "facts" reported is that she set out for a 20 hour night passage in October without foul weather gear.
I believe that single "fact", if true, suggest that her experience of the invariabley very cold conditions of small boat sailing at night in UK waters was negligible.
 
mikefleetwood said:
Now that we've moved on to mitigating the risks, it is worth remembering that the safest form of sailing is to sit at home reading about it......

We've had about 5 pages on passage plans (sorry, partly my fault) and 60ish pages of other speculation - but that's all it is, speculation and guesswork. Unless some sort of evidence turns up (unlikely) that's all we've got. Some interesting topics got an airing, but otherwise none of can know what happened - so maybe it's time to move on?
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Mikefleetwood,

this thread has ranged from people like me and others saying ' the trip was not an unreasonable idea' to others saying - largely with the great benefit of 20/20 hindsight " I told her she was mad ! " - also some suggesting ulterior motives from suicide to homicide !

Both of which seem insulting in the extreme to me.

I agree all speculation is about spent, I just wish Mrs Unwins' husband, family and friends may find some comfort soon.
 
mikefleetwood said:
Now that we've moved on to mitigating the risks, it is worth remembering that the safest form of sailing is to sit at home reading about it......

We've had about 5 pages on passage plans (sorry, partly my fault) and 60ish pages of other speculation - but that's all it is, speculation and guesswork. Unless some sort of evidence turns up (unlikely) that's all we've got. Some interesting topics got an airing, but otherwise none of can know what happened - so maybe it's time to move on?
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I think we got beyond speculation quite a long time ago and it became (or should have become) a more generic discussion of risk management in sailing. For some reason this is a topic that a section of the community regard with disdain. Of course sailing is more dangerous than sitting at home reading about it, but that is no reason to not take sensible precautions. We don't know what happened in this specific case - but it is clear that her risk management did not work. So, in the hypothetical case of someone wanting to take a thirty-odd foot yacht round the Cornish coast, what is a sensible risk management approach? That is a valid topic for discussion, isn't it?
 
MrCramp said:
I am very surprised that there dosn't appear to be any more news of more wreckage etc being found/recovered.
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I'm not the attention span of the press and the TV?radio is very short. Perhaps if they find a body they may resurect the story but that will depend on the rest of that days news. They have interviewed all the 'experts' spent the expenses and are off on the next bit of fabricated drama
 
tom52 said:
Aside from tangential discussions, the nub of the thread appears to be......................... on the balance of probabilities was she
a) a competent sailor who met with some catastrophic unforseeable event ,
or b) a fantasist with no real small boat skipper experience and all the over
confidence that only ignorance can bring ?

IMHO one of the most telling "facts" reported is that she set out for a 20 hour night passage in October without foul weather gear.
I believe that single "fact", if true, suggest that her experience of the invariabley very cold conditions of small boat sailing at night in UK waters was negligible.
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I think she probably got more experience of the cold and wet than I would care to, if that is the case. I find it hard to believe a person with no oilies would not be hypothermic in a couple of hours of sailing up wind. It might just be that she had some waterproof/windproof clothing not intended for yachting.
 
jimi said:
Just picked this snippet up from

http://www.thisiscornwall.co.uk/Yacht-wreckage-confirmed-Seagair/story-17107126-detail/story.html


"The spread of the wreckage was very large, from just south of Land's End to Godrevy and Hayle."

Would this suggest that it might not have been as close to Sennen as was suspected ? Or does it merely reflect the weather and tides?
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Thanks for posting this, first bit of real info for a long time!

The spread certainly will be down to tides but it's interesting it's along the north coast rather than the south, and how far the spread is if Sennen was the starting point. Sad to see the more final identification and subsequent loss of hope that goes with it.
 
lustyd said:
Thanks for posting this, first bit of real info for a long time!

The spread certainly will be down to tides but it's interesting it's along the north coast rather than the south, and how far the spread is if Sennen was the starting point. Sad to see the more final identification and subsequent loss of hope that goes with it.
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I hate to add to the speculation and I hope Fisherman comes along to give some more concrete info, but I'd have thought if it was close inshore to Sennen as we originally thought then the wreckage would have been a lot more concentrated in the Sennen /Lands End area, the fact that the tde/weather has spread it over such a large area would seem to me that the disintegration occurred further offshore.
 
In post no. 613 of this thread, ChannelYacht states that it is usual for wreckage to spread out over a wide area quite quickly.
 
jimi said:
I hate to add to the speculation and I hope Fisherman comes along to give some more concrete info, but I'd have thought if it was close inshore to Sennen as we originally thought then the wreckage would have been a lot more concentrated in the Sennen /Lands End area, the fact that the tde/weather has spread it over such a large area would seem to me that the disintegration occurred further offshore.
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Tidal flows are stronger on the north coast than the south, I would think spread is down to buoyancy as much as anything.
 
So the latest news is that the boat was not surveyed therefore unlikely to be insured and that she tried to employ a delivery skipper at the last minute. All very sad:(
 
maby said:
So, in the hypothetical case of someone wanting to take a thirty-odd foot yacht round the Cornish coast, what is a sensible risk management approach? That is a valid topic for discussion, isn't it?
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Yes Maby, a fair enough question.

As well as the obvious things like up to date charts and homework on them and tides, I'd have wanted someone along as crew; frankly if they could walk and chew gum they'd do !

Just someone to take the helm and " steer so the compass stays on that, and keep a lookout all around, wake me if in the slightest bother ! "

I'd also suggest simple things like a flask of coffee and another of soup, some sandwiches, and especially some binoculars.

If I was in that situation I doubt if I'd have slept, but might have been relieved by lying in my bunk for a while; as with most things, briefing the crew as to the general nav' situation would be crucial, both to a restful sleep and ideally not waking up in a lifeboat or helicopter !
 
boguing said:
At some point I must have realised that passage plans are not only irrelevant in a sailing boat, but can actually cause stress because they often come apart.

Thirty years later this thread has made me realise that I have not made one for thirty five years.

Boating is about gaining the experience that allows you to say that I'm going from a to b and working out the how after you've untied. Knowing the weather forecast is always important, but often knowing the tide is not. And waypoints are just places accurately defined but not really important when you know the coast well.

This year I sailed from Poole to Lymington with no charts. Lovely evening, tide against most of the way, and knowing the shape of the Shingles, just kept the depth at two Metres.

From twenty five to ten years ago I spent three weeks each year sailing from A to somewhere else in Greece undecided. No passage plan.

So my thoughts on this accident? High probability of a collision with a ship. Best other probability was her health. Looks like a walking heart attack. (I've had one and don't look like that, but anyway). In that moderate wind the boat could well have been sailing fast enough to sink after hitting a rock.
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It may not be necessary to identify waypoints or bother about tides or do any sort of passage planning if you are sailing somewhere as benign as your Lymington to Poole passage and certainly you dont need to worry about tides in the Med. But if you were rounding Lands End in the dark , single handed you would be an utter fool not to have done these basic steps. Doesnt matter what experience you have ( and I have lots of that particular passage) you need to do the preparation.

Why? Well for a start you would be passing within 100m or less of rocks that would sink you if you took the inshore passage and you would be going at least 15 miles extra if you went so far offshore as to be nowhere near any rocks. Whats more you are gradually altering course by 180 degrees as you pass a whole series of headlands, so you need to know when and where to make each turn to stay within the favourable inshore current and not hit anything. No other way but waypoints if you are single handed and dont have a plotter at the wheel - I use 15 of them to get from Penzance to Padstow.

Turning through 180 degrees you need to time it right to get favourable tide all the way round. To do as you imply and ignore tide would be silly and potentially double your passage time. And it would be foolhardy to risk a coastline as inhospitable as this one in a small boat without a decent weather forecast. Between Newlyn and Padstow there effectively is nowhere else to stop in bad weather and Padstow isnt necessarily accessible in a gale from NW to NE. I've had pals forced to go straight from Ilfracombe to Mousehole because the weather made it impossible to stop off.

Together these three make up a passage plan. Done with some forethought I have never yet had a plan "fall apart" as you think they do. I'm surprised you would suggest that a plan isnt necessary for a 100 mile overnight single handed passage along such an exposed coast.

Collision with a ship? Unlikely - you're thinking busy south coast. There are few ships in the area she would be sailing, not even that many fishing boats. Usually I will not see a single ship and maybe just a couple of inshore fishing boats / potters. The traffic lane round Lands End is well offshore of where she would be.

FWIW, my bet is that she was overconfident, tried to wing it without sensible preparation and hit one of the many rocks.
 
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