Missing yachtswoman in South west.

Is it not time the mods killed this particular thread? It has lost its way and relevence.
When seeking factual updates (granted, of which there are sadly very few) it is frustrating to have to trawl through red-herrings and speculation.

And I accept that I have been a circular threader, occasionally - so "pot calling kettle black". Sorry.
 
dt4134 said:
I think only reporting is obligatory. It's not on the list of current investigations: http://www.maib.gov.uk/latest_news/current_investigations.cfm
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It will be interesting to see if the MAIB do report on this one. Presumably they would investigate if there was a possibility of her being run down by a commercial vessel. It needs to be established whether or not a 3rd party may have been involved - who would do this other than MAIB?
 
Seajet said:
I see, no answer at all, just a wind-up merchant.

Please will someone tell me how I use the 'ignore' function, had no need for it in nearly 10,000 posts but I reckon now is the time - seriously, please tell me the 'ignore' routine !
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I have absolutely no idea what on earth you are talking about and why you dragged my photo from the depths of the thread. Feel free to ignore me, I won't lose any sleep over it.
 
prv said:
Well, now you know. Merchant Shipping (Safety of Navigation) Regulations 2002. There was quite a hoo-ha about it a few years ago, though the fuss has since died down when nothing really changed on a day to day basis.

It does apply to private pleasure vessels, but the law is generally interpreted as not requiring the plan to be written down (this hasn't actually been tested in court as far as I know). So provided you know where you're going and have at least glanced at a forecast and a tide table (or determined that tide isn't relevant for your intended passage) then you're ok.

Pete
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She knew where she was going - around the corner & head for Bideford.
As she was singlehanded, who else on board should she have told, regarding her 'passage plan'?
 
I think it's pretty much fair to say that almost everyone in the country who might be interested knows what she was planning to do - so, perhaps we can consider the existance of (at least verbal) passage plan to be proven!
 
Just looked in here, I thought that by now the subject of the thread would be completely forgotten or ignored - delighted to find one post with two lines dedicated to the subject!
 
alant said:
She knew where she was going - around the corner & head for Bideford.
As she was singlehanded, who else on board should she have told, regarding her 'passage plan'?
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Eh?

I wasn't talking about Mrs Unwin at all, I was replying to Mike who didn't know he was supposed to have a passage plan. That's why I, y'know, quoted his post and everything.

Pete
 
prv said:
Eh?

I wasn't talking about Mrs Unwin at all, I was replying to Mike who didn't know he was supposed to have a passage plan. That's why I, y'know, quoted his post and everything.

Pete
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From what I understand, its very hard not to have a passage plan of some sort

even a leave the mooring and have a pootle around to test the new sail would have an implicit passage plan of "leave the mooring and pootle around to test the sail"

But I may be wrong, there's a first time for everything ;-)
 
reginaldon said:
Just looked in here, I thought that by now the subject of the thread would be completely forgotten or ignored - delighted to find one post with two lines dedicated to the subject!
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And your reason for posting something irrelevant is..?

Regarding passage plans, we need to have one, but not notify it - unless required to produce it later.
Sadly, "Round the corner to Bideford" may be all that is learnt about Mrs Unwin's plan.
 
jimi said:
From what I understand, its very hard not to have a passage plan of some sort

even a leave the mooring and have a pootle around to test the new sail would have an implicit passage plan of "leave the mooring and pootle around to test the sail"
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Sure. I wasn't trying to make any comment about Mrs Unwin, or trigger a general discussion about passage plans. I was strictly responding to Mike's (sarcastic?) comment of
Sorry Frank, but I didn't realise that the law required the production of a passage plan before going to sea?
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by pointing out that yes, it does.

Pete
 
mikefleetwood said:
I think it's pretty much fair to say that almost everyone in the country who might be interested knows what she was planning to do - so, perhaps we can consider the existance of (at least verbal) passage plan to be proven!
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Come on, Mike. A passage plan around somewhere like Lands End, means looking at the hazards, thinking about how far off the coast you should be, considering tidal gates etc.
 
franksingleton said:
Come on, Mike. A passage plan around somewhere like Lands End, means looking at the hazards, thinking about how far off the coast you should be, considering tidal gates etc.
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Only if you were a competent skipper & aware of the hazards & the limitations of yourself & the vessel.

Not all who sail fulfil all those requirements. Tim & Shane Spall on the Princess Matilda rounding were borderline on the evidence of their own video of the passage.

Just remember the guy who kept turning right & went twice round Sheppey before running out of petrol & getting rescued. His passage plan was "follow the coast" & he didn't even realise the Isle of Sheppey was an island!

This has no relevance to Ms Unwin's situation, just a general comment that some people are better able to prepare than others.
 
franksingleton said:
Come on, Mike. A passage plan around somewhere like Lands End, means looking at the hazards, thinking about how far off the coast you should be, considering tidal gates etc.
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I was only responding to your suggestion that she didn't have a plan and was thus breaking the law.

None of us here know whether she did or didn't have a "passage plan". But we all seem to know that she planned to round Lands End and head for Bideford. The consensus seems to be that she left Mousehole at a time that would have resulted in favourable tides round Lands end and up the Bristol Channel - so at least an element of prior planning was probably involved (but, we don't know for sure).

I suspect that for many of us, the "passage plan" amounts to no more than telling SWMBO that we're going fishing for the afternoon, or for a quick sail around the bay. Or, perhaps deciding if we can get to that nice waterside pub in time for lunch.
 
Searush said:
Only if you were a competent skipper & aware of the hazards & the limitations of yourself & the vessel.

Not all who sail fulfil all those requirements. Tim & Shane Spall on the Princess Matilda rounding were borderline on the evidence of their own video of the passage. ............
.
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If you go to http://www.rya.org.uk/infoadvice/regssafety/pleasurecraftregs/Pages/SOLASV.aspx#voyage, the formal position is set out. Ignorance of the law is not a defence. The last para, added by the RYA, says –

RYA Note: Skippers should note that this regulation changes the status of passage planning on small boats from simply good practice to a requirement under UK law for vessels proceeding to sea. “Going to sea” is defined as proceeding outside of 'categorized waters' (most of the Solent area counts as categorised waters, as do many estuaries). See MSN 1827 for full details.

I come back to my question which was, had the coastguard been informed could they have had her stopped and arrested? It would be interesting to know. Otherwise, we have a law that nobody is willing to implement.

The only way that the law might have some teeth in case such as this one might be if the insurance company refused to pay up for loss of the yacht on the grounds that the skipper clearly did not have a passage plan – other than a stated intention to go from Mousehole to Bideford via lands End.
 
mikefleetwood said:
.............

I suspect that for many of us, the "passage plan" amounts to no more than telling SWMBO that we're going fishing for the afternoon, or for a quick sail around the bay. Or, perhaps deciding if we can get to that nice waterside pub in time for lunch.
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Mike

I do not think that your definition of a passage plan would meet those of the MCA/RYA.

All we really know is that the person who took her out for a “refresher” sail was reported as saying that she did not have any charts. It would be hard to convince a marine insurer, or any sailor with a RYA Coastal Skipper’s certificate, that a passage plan for what she was doing could be made without reference to charts.
 
franksingleton said:
Mike

I do not think that your definition of a passage plan would meet those of the MCA/RYA.

All we really know is that the person who took her out for a “refresher” sail was reported as saying that she did not have any charts. It would be hard to convince a marine insurer, or any sailor with a RYA Coastal Skipper’s certificate, that a passage plan for what she was doing could be made without reference to charts.
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I am not sure she did'nt have charts. W know she bought the boat without charts but a quick trip to the chandler in falmouth would have given her charts, and £29.95 online if she had an Iphone would have provided a Navionics chartplotter and charts on an Iphone or smartphone.

(I recently had cause to be grateful for Navionics when my oldish paper chart was clearly out of date between Cromer and Lowestoft (eeek) but my navionics on smartphone was spot on!)
 
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