Misship toe rail cleat positioning

[stevd]

Hello all,

I am after some advice on where to roughly position my midship cleat (I know - in the middle of boat) but is it better being slightly fore or aft or dead centre. I have bought them just to use for single handing and as a backup to the fore and aft mooring cleats which I am happy with. The boat is a moody 33. The reason I ask, is because I cant really do too much trial and error because I will have to drill the toe rail, so I would rather get it right first time, and I have had no experience with midship cleats.

Cheers

S

 

[peter2407]

Do you have the means to trial this before drilling? use genoa cars, stanchion base/toe rail? (i know, I know, but it is temporary). That way you can trial it and then drill. Is yours a centre cockpit job?

 

[JumbleDuck]

I'd suggest putting them at the widest it, wherever that is.

 

[stevd]

Its the aft cockpit version, I could probably have a play around with a warp on the basis of stanchions I guess.

JD - The widest point I guess is the most likely place for a pivot point for springing off?

 

[stevd]

Oh, and sorry for the typo in the heading! I cant seem to be able to change that.

 

[dom]

Its the aft cockpit version, I could probably have a play around with a warp on the basis of stanchions I guess.

JD - The widest point I guess is the most likely place for a pivot point for springing off?

+ 1 to JD's widest point suggestion. I would have thought that the bow and stern cleats would be most useful for springing. I find mid-cleats invaluable when docking/operating locks single handed. The idea is to drop a line from the mid-cleat and then gently motor against it, steering to keep the boat in a nice straight line beside the pontoon whilst the other lines are connected. If you have the cleat too far forward the boat will sit bow in to such an extent that you may hit the boat beside you. Too far aft and your bow will be hard to stop blowing off as the wind rises.

Notwithstanding this I agree with the recommendation to test first

 

[NormanS]

I fitted two about one metre apart, one forward of amidships, and one aft of midships. It means I can rig two springs on separate cleats. Works well for me.

 

[Poignard]

Stretch a length of rope between the aft chain plate and a sheet winch.

Hitch a mooring warp to it using a rolling hitch. You will be able to slide this along the rope

Experiment with the rolling hitch in different positions until you find one that works best.

Install your cleat at that point.

My midships cleats are aft of the after chain plate, which gives a good result.

Also, if you boat has a tiller, attach a loop of shockcord at each side of the cockpit to temporarily hold the tiller over towards the pontoon or lock wall while you run the engine slowly ahead.

 

[dom]

Stretch a length of rope between the aft chain plate and a sheet winch.

Hitch a mooring warp to it using a rolling hitch. You will be able to slide this along the rope

Experiment with the rolling hitch in different positions until you find one that works best.

...and if you want to be really precise, repeat experiment on the other side as propwash can be a factor depending on design/location of prop and rudder. Can make a surprisingly big difference on some boats.

 

[Poignard]

Good point. I'd never have thought of that.

 

[ex-Gladys]

I'm fortunate in having Moody style toerail, and attached a Yacht Systems cleat where the previous deckmounted cleats were. They bolt directly into the toerail, through the slots so are highly mobile. IMHO the thing you need to look at is the curvature of the gunwhale, and I believe the most useful point to be just aft of the point of Max beam. The reason I use them is that you can get the line ashore and then use the engine and rudder to keep the boat in position. Mine are too far forward, so any power applied swings the stern out, if I use an alternative cleat a bit further aft it's perfect.

 

[JumbleDuck]

JD - The widest point I guess is the most likely place for a pivot point for springing off?

I was thinking that the rope past the widest point is going to touch there anyway, so you might as well attach it there ... less rubbing. This might not work on modern boats (I am looking at you, Elan) where the widest point appears to be at the transom. Harrumph. Kids today.

 

[johnphilip]

One other consideration.
Keep the cleats forward if anything or they become useless when visiting a marina with short finger pontoons, even with a 33' boat we sometimes find the midships cleat almost vertically above the cleat on the end of the pontoon.
( Perhaps because these days even at 33' we are pushed to the "Small boat" pontoons to make way for bigger caravans.)

 

[Pasarell]

I have the bolt on cleats on the toerail of my M33 at the widest point and they work very well. Ridiculously expensive but they do make handling the boat short handed so much easier

 

[jac]

If your toe rail is of the slotted kind try shackling a block on - run a line through it and back to a strong point. You can then experiment where it will best fit

 

[reeac]

On my Sadler 29 I snap-shackle onto the inverted U bolt that the shrouds attach to i.e. In line with the mast. with the mast. Works fine.

 

[Norman_E]

If you are going to fit bolt through cleats the most vital issue is to make sure that you will be able to access the nuts underneath before you drill any holes.

 

[Poignard]

If you are going to fit bolt through cleats the most vital issue is to make sure that you will be able to access the nuts underneath before you drill any holes.

Is that the voice of bitter experience speaking?

 

[stevd]

Thanks for the useful suggestions. I will give it a go this weekend, and repost the outcome (hopefully a good one)

 

[Boo2]

I'm fortunate in having Moody style toerail, and attached a Yacht Systems cleat where the previous deckmounted cleats were. They bolt directly into the toerail, through the slots so are highly mobile. IMHO the thing you need to look at is the curvature of the gunwhale, and I believe the most useful point to be just aft of the point of Max beam. The reason I use them is that you can get the line ashore and then use the engine and rudder to keep the boat in position. Mine are too far forward, so any power applied swings the stern out, if I use an alternative cleat a bit further aft it's perfect.

+1. I asked the same question a while ago and took the suggestion of attaching a block at various places on the toerail and attaching by that whilst already moored at the pontoon. Slacking the other lines permits you to find the best place to put the cleat : if you move the rudder when in slow ahead there is a range of positions where the action is balanced such that you can manouver the bows inwards as well as outwards.

Mine ended up about 4 feet aft of maximum beam which is very convenient to reach for setting a line when approaching a pontoon.

Boo2