VicS
Well-Known Member
If Pagham is for birds I wish the birders would move these featherd guano factories there and leave Chichester for the boats.
Militant dredger required
- Thread starter Twister_Ken
- Start date
sea urchin
Well-Known Member
If that was your boat in the picture, looks like you should lead the way, as a pied piper of the sea, with the feathered friends in hot pursuit.
Could work the other way of course, you could lead the birdies away from Pagham, to find refuge at Pilsey Island!
An alternative approach suggested by a friend: "you have plenty of guano (nitrate), we have charcoal and sulphur". That'll shift them, is it militant enough?
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Carribean Blue
Member
Consider the following hypothesis.
When a person makes a statement which is factually untrue, there are three possibilities:-
a) Believes the statement to be true, having been convinced, he is only misguided, and definitiely not a liar.
b) Who neither knows nor cares whether it is true or untrue, then he is reckless.
c) Makes a statement which knowingly conflicts with the truth, then it is deliberate deception.
(See attached Pagham Harbour boat permit) This "permit" does not authorise anything, but does, in fact, restrict the common law rights of the holder. It is currently issued by West Sussex County Council. It is worse than worthless to the holder, as he is expected to pay for the privilege!
Is this incompetence, carelessness, or deception?
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When a person makes a statement which is factually untrue, there are three possibilities:-
a) Believes the statement to be true, having been convinced, he is only misguided, and definitiely not a liar.
b) Who neither knows nor cares whether it is true or untrue, then he is reckless.
c) Makes a statement which knowingly conflicts with the truth, then it is deliberate deception.
(See attached Pagham Harbour boat permit) This "permit" does not authorise anything, but does, in fact, restrict the common law rights of the holder. It is currently issued by West Sussex County Council. It is worse than worthless to the holder, as he is expected to pay for the privilege!
Is this incompetence, carelessness, or deception?
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pagham pomarine
New Member
I suspect none of these - it is either a joke, or a revenue raising exercise. Councils are cash strapped now that £billions have gone down the Swanny. So how enterprising to sell boat permits which "shall not be deemed to include any permission to ....... use a boat of any description whatsoever". They must have seen the poor yotties coming. Maybe the money raised will go towards a new bird hide or two!Consider the following hypothesis.
(See attached Pagham Harbour boat permit) This "permit" does not authorise anything, but does, in fact, restrict the common law rights of the holder. It is currently issued by West Sussex County Council. It is worse than worthless to the holder, as he is expected to pay for the privilege!
Is this incompetence, carelessness, or deception?
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It could be that WSCC are just comedians - this thread shows that:
a) they give intriguing file names to reports attached to offial agendas on their website - eg Harbour byelaws currently in force - filename "G:\Graphics\Victoria's Fun File\Gary Rustell" - must be in anticipation of the recreational activities we can expect in the harbour? (More revenue raising to keep my council tax down??)
b) Their officials cant tell the difference between fresh water and tidal water.
Are they landlubbers or just having a laugh? Perhaps they know that our ancient rights do not apply to fresh water and are trying to extinguish them?
c) They sell a boat permit which is a misdescription - there must be some kind of law against this even if it is sold tongue in cheek in the hopes of subsidising local services!!
Is this typicl of councils when they interfere with rights of the sea/sea shore?
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sea urchin
Well-Known Member
(See attached Pagham Harbour boat permit) This "permit" does not authorise anything, but does, in fact, restrict the common law rights of the holder. It is currently issued by West Sussex County Council. It is worse than worthless to the holder, as he is expected to pay for the privilege!
You mean people pay for this! It looks like a scam, or maybe a sham. What do they do to people who do not have one?
alan_d
Well-Known Member
I wonder if it is a question of punctuation.
This permit shall not be deemed to include any permission ... to use a boat of any description whatsoever ... which is otherwise unlawful under the bylaws ...
This permit shall not be deemed to include any permission ... to use a boat of any description whatsoever ... which is otherwise unlawful under the bylaws ...
sea urchin
Well-Known Member
Just proves my point. It is a sham. The byelaws state:
2. Within the Reserve the following Acts are hereby prohibited
except in so far as they may be authorised by a permit issued
by the owners of any part of the Reserve in accordance with
Bylaw 3
2(xvi) Mooring or leaving or launching any vessel of any kind
whatsoever, except in an emergency.
(xvii) Propelling (by any means whatsoever) any vessel of any
kind howsoever navigated propelled or moved on the
surface or through the water on an area or stretch of water
other than a public waterway except in an emergency.
1(e) “Public waterway” shall mean the area of the reserve
covered by tidal waters..
So boats are allowed to navigate under the byelaws, on the tidal waters. (The water indicated on the permit map is tidal, and therefore a public waterway - and public rights of navigation over tidal waters exist, in any case under maritime law, to which the byelaws are subservient).
Over the years there have been several attempts by WSCC to have the provision "except on a public waterway" removed from the byelaws (which would result in the byelaws prohibiting navigation, that would then have to be challenged in court). The most recent was in 2008 (and still pending). In 1996, the RYA successfully prevented a previous attempt.
Despite the law allowing navigation, the impression has been given that boats are only permitted in an emergency, or with a permit. A myth has developed, as can be seen in the first entry on this thread. The permit has been issued in its present form for about 20 years, I am told. At about the same time an ambiguous sign went up at the harbour entrance which says "No unauthorised boat is permitted to use the harbour" - and so the myth is perpetuated. (Boats do not require authorisation to use the harbour, when exercising navigation rights, by implication they are authorised).
Our rights can easily be eroded - attempts have been made at Studland, at Pagham, and maybe next at a harbour/bay near you?
Carribean Blue
Member
I have heard that Ratty and Mole might need more than a dredger.
Seems like they will need a good lawyer, and some help from the RYA if Toad gets his way. I was looking at:-
http://www.paghamyachtclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=94
This could set a precedent, if WSCC get their way, then it could become the thin end of the wedge.
Carribean Blue
Seems like they will need a good lawyer, and some help from the RYA if Toad gets his way. I was looking at:-
http://www.paghamyachtclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=94
This could set a precedent, if WSCC get their way, then it could become the thin end of the wedge.
Carribean Blue
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sea urchin
Well-Known Member
It looks as if Ratty and Mole have rallied the troops, if the event witnessed last Sunday is anything to go by.........
Yes, boats in Pagham Harbour, and they made it all the way up to Sidlesham Quay. Still need the dredger to get anything much bigger up there, though!
Carribean Blue
Member
It's a dredger (working for Chichester Harbour), but is it militant enough for Pagham?
The Sospan Dau and its shingle rainbow has become quite a tourist attraction on Hayling Island, too.
About a thousand cubic metres an hour, I believe, that should pebbledash your guano!!
The Sospan Dau and its shingle rainbow has become quite a tourist attraction on Hayling Island, too.
About a thousand cubic metres an hour, I believe, that should pebbledash your guano!!
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sea urchin
Well-Known Member
Blimey! 
By gum! Well we could do with that to reinstate the beach which has been washed away in last year's storms, from Pagham Yacht Club to Pagham Spit. There's plenty of spare shingle on the Church Norton Spit opposite (allegedly it will only be missed by a few terns).
It will enable easier launching for residents (essential preparation for sea level rise), and may have the additional benefit of protecting about 300 homes too.
By gum! Well we could do with that to reinstate the beach which has been washed away in last year's storms, from Pagham Yacht Club to Pagham Spit. There's plenty of spare shingle on the Church Norton Spit opposite (allegedly it will only be missed by a few terns).
It will enable easier launching for residents (essential preparation for sea level rise), and may have the additional benefit of protecting about 300 homes too.
selsey girl
New Member
Blimey!
By gum! Well we could do with that to reinstate the beach which has been washed away in last year's storms, from Pagham Yacht Club to Pagham Spit. There's plenty of spare shingle on the Church Norton Spit opposite (allegedly it will only be missed by a few terns).
It will enable easier launching for residents (essential preparation for sea level rise), and may have the additional benefit of protecting about 300 homes too.
These images of the chaos left by the force of the sea at Pagham, illustrate your point well. They certainly show a dredger might solve the probelm to protect the beach from erosion.
This was the damage to the slipway (tossed about like plywood!) after a severe storm last year:
What makes locals mad, is that English Nature seems to make out that a few terns will indeed favour the shingle to nest on, (rather than the island constructed for that purpose). They have strange priorities!! Now there is very little shingle separating the sea from people's homes, infrastructure etc.
Bring on the Sospan Dau, say I.
- That is to put shingle on the beach. The harbour itself is a paradise - we should all see to it that it is not disturbed, and left as a quiet haven:-
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selsey girl
New Member
pagham pomarine
New Member
There was a public notice last week, in the Chichester Observer - Arun District Council has proposals for beach defences at Pagham Beach. These can be viewed at Bognor Town Hall, or at Arun Civic Offices, Littlehampton. There are 28 days (from pubication) to register representations.
A step in the right direction (for the beach erosion), and hopefully good news for the Pagham Yacht Club, and its slipway.
A step in the right direction (for the beach erosion), and hopefully good news for the Pagham Yacht Club, and its slipway.
selsey girl
New Member
Forget the Dredger, bring on the "Sea Legs"
I was at Chichester Harbour yesterday, and saw the solution for Pagham Harbour, at Itchenor Hard........ SEA LEGS
Never mind dredging channels, replenishing the beach with shingle etc, much simpler to invest in a few of these to link the local communities at Pagham, Selsey, and Sidlesham. When there is not enough water, then this amphibious boat can take to land - just lower the wheels and away you go (it can be driven on land for up to 1km at 10km/h)
And as for the residents of the 300 homes at risk of flooding, give them each a pontoon for their railway carriage, and one of these to go to the shops, school etc. in preparation for the looming disaster. (Shame about those who have replaced the railway carriage with a villa though they could still have the sea legs to escape to the emergency centre for flood victims - Pagham Harbour Visitor Centre at Sidlesham would be ideal - though a little dilapidated).
Surely much cheaper than spraying shingle onto the beach every few years!! And it would help to support local businesses too (buy local etc) The possibilities are endless.... And you could even have fun too.
I was at Chichester Harbour yesterday, and saw the solution for Pagham Harbour, at Itchenor Hard........ SEA LEGS
Never mind dredging channels, replenishing the beach with shingle etc, much simpler to invest in a few of these to link the local communities at Pagham, Selsey, and Sidlesham. When there is not enough water, then this amphibious boat can take to land - just lower the wheels and away you go (it can be driven on land for up to 1km at 10km/h)
And as for the residents of the 300 homes at risk of flooding, give them each a pontoon for their railway carriage, and one of these to go to the shops, school etc. in preparation for the looming disaster. (Shame about those who have replaced the railway carriage with a villa though they could still have the sea legs to escape to the emergency centre for flood victims - Pagham Harbour Visitor Centre at Sidlesham would be ideal - though a little dilapidated).
Surely much cheaper than spraying shingle onto the beach every few years!! And it would help to support local businesses too (buy local etc) The possibilities are endless.... And you could even have fun too.
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jason -and the arguenauts
Well-Known Member
What makes you think it will stop at that? There are people losing their homes to tide encroachment and the wildlife lobby. You may well lose your mooring eventually
Carribean Blue
Member
Selsey Girl - Sea Legs
I've seen one of these being tested in Chichester Harbour, recently.
I thought it was a really crazy idea. I wasn't sure whether it was a boat, or a tractor, or whether I was just seeing things. But I have looked into this.
Maybe it is not that crazy and could be a "green" solution for people in Pagham or Selsey. They may wish to visit the Crab and Lobster at Sidlesham. By road from Pagham, it is a ten mile drive, but only a mile and a half across Pagham Harbour by water/mudflats.
Just think of the marvellous possibility, you could be collected from the pub car park, by a water taxi at any state of the tide, no need to walk down to Sidlesham Quay, and it could drop you to your door back in Pagham or Selsey. (Leave your own boat at home)
I've seen one of these being tested in Chichester Harbour, recently.
I thought it was a really crazy idea. I wasn't sure whether it was a boat, or a tractor, or whether I was just seeing things. But I have looked into this.
Maybe it is not that crazy and could be a "green" solution for people in Pagham or Selsey. They may wish to visit the Crab and Lobster at Sidlesham. By road from Pagham, it is a ten mile drive, but only a mile and a half across Pagham Harbour by water/mudflats.
Just think of the marvellous possibility, you could be collected from the pub car park, by a water taxi at any state of the tide, no need to walk down to Sidlesham Quay, and it could drop you to your door back in Pagham or Selsey. (Leave your own boat at home)