Might as well re-engine now I guess?

S

Steve_N

Well-Known Member
Joined
31 May 2004
Messages
1,104
Location
Fife
Visit site
The boat is 32 this year, we're just either side of 60 and envisage keeping her until they carry us away in boxes.
The venerable MD21B is the original and runs as sweet as a nut, but it drips (that's being kind) oil from the rear crankshaft seal, the circulation pump (£400) is starting to weep and if that exhaust riser ever goes then we're really in trouble.
I enjoy keeping the old girl running and although we probably only ever use 30 or so of her 60 horses I'd want to replace it with another big, smooth and lazy 4 cylinder lump.

I'm guessing at around £8000 for a replacement, possibly a bit less with lots of DIY, but this has always seemed too much to 'invest' but has been brought into focus by a £3400 quote to replace just the saloon and nav station upholstery..

Given the respective ages and life expectancies of equipment and people there really isn't an argument against going for it now is there?
 
Steve_N said:
The boat is 32 this year, we're just either side of 60 and envisage keeping her until they carry us away in boxes.
The venerable MD21B is the original and runs as sweet as a nut, but it drips (that's being kind) oil from the rear crankshaft seal, the circulation pump (£400) is starting to weep and if that exhaust riser ever goes then we're really in trouble.
I enjoy keeping the old girl running and although we probably only ever use 30 or so of her 60 horses I'd want to replace it with another big, smooth and lazy 4 cylinder lump.

I'm guessing at around £8000 for a replacement, possibly a bit less with lots of DIY, but this has always seemed too much to 'invest' but has been brought into focus by a £3400 quote to replace just the saloon and nav station upholstery..

Given the respective ages and life expectancies of equipment and people there really isn't an argument against going for it now is there?
Click to expand...

You have to look at it from the point of view of the alternatives. Assuming you wish to keep sailing then they might be selling this boat and buying something newer, better etc, accepting the gradual decline in capability or spending the money and getting your return over the next x years. Unfortunately the cost of a new engine is related to the price of new boats, not the value of the 32 year old one, so it is never an "investment" in financial terms - only in terms of the future value you get from it. Changing boats is not costless so you will almost certainly have to spend substantially more than the cost of a new engine to get anything better, plus of course the difficulty of selling the current boat with its dodgy engine!

You won't be able to get an engine like your current one, nor is there any need. Modern engines are so much better in terms of size, weight and refinement and will easily give you (or your heirs) another 30 years of good service. The current engine and running gear owe you nothing - go for it and replace the whole lot then enjoy the rest of your sailing years.
 
Beta marine has quoted me £8800 for their 60 HP with reverse gear and saildrive, excluding labour. So without the saildrive but with labour and a bit of DIY your estimate sounds about right.

But from what you're saying, it might all be fixed with a few new seals and a whole bunch of work (but less work than a new engine).
 
A death sentence seems a bit harsh for the minor transgression of leaking a bit of oil and having a dicky water pump. When people have engines that are genuinely on their last legs I tend to think "ditch it", but if yours really "runs as sweet as a nut" then surely it makes sense to fix the crankshaft seal and treat it to a new water pump? Not sure what to do about the exhaust as it's not clear what the problem is, but there is probably a solution even if it involves paying a welder.

Pete
 
If, apart from the three things you mention, the engine is otherwise sound, I can't see why you would want to go to all the expense and trouble of fitting a new engine.

My engine (a BUKH, directly cooled) was bought new in 1982 and, provided I continue to service it regularly, there's no reason why it shouldn't last many more years. All the parts are still available for it, so corrosion of the cast iron block is probably the thing that will eventually finish it off although even that could be repaired by a specialist.
 
In the long run fitting a new engine will be cheaper and give you many years of carefree sailing/motoring. If you've got the money, go for it but don't get a bigger engine than you need.
If you haven't got the dosh, you'll have to get the problems fixed and hope for the best as most of us do. My engine's older than yours so probably living on borrowed time.
 
PCUK said:
He's not looking at the long run! Anyway I can't see how several thousand pounds is better than a few hundred.
Click to expand...

Nor me it this case. A few drips won't cause the engine to fail. I would put up with them and maybe service/replace all the other detachable bits and job done.
 
There are many possible reasons why the OP might want to sell the boat in 5 or 10 years time.
If he re-engines now, that engine will be seriously secondhand by then.

IMHO, the time to change engine is when it starts to seriously impinge on use of the boat.
When you get less use out of the boat because the engine is dodgy, then there is value in having a new one.
The pump for £400 sounds steep, but should the motor expire in a few years, I would imagine the pump would be in demand from other owners?
 
ghostlymoron said:
They're only 60s.
Click to expand...

Only 60's . I love it .

Yes, we are the new middle aged.

Just a thought, there was a thread not too long ago about an excellent company that specializes in rebuilding old (classic) engines. A search
would find it.

My daughter had a 1950's Lister engine in her narrow boat that is going fine and everyone likes looking at it and hearing it run.

If it's practical, might be fun to keep it.
 
Steve_N said:
The boat is 32 this year, we're just either side of 60 and envisage keeping her until they carry us away in boxes.
The venerable MD21B is the original and runs as sweet as a nut, but it drips (that's being kind) oil from the rear crankshaft seal, the circulation pump (£400) is starting to weep and if that exhaust riser ever goes then we're really in trouble.
I enjoy keeping the old girl running and although we probably only ever use 30 or so of her 60 horses I'd want to replace it with another big, smooth and lazy 4 cylinder lump.

I'm guessing at around £8000 for a replacement, possibly a bit less with lots of DIY, but this has always seemed too much to 'invest' but has been brought into focus by a £3400 quote to replace just the saloon and nav station upholstery..

Given the respective ages and life expectancies of equipment and people there really isn't an argument against going for it now is there?
Click to expand...

Your engine could be refurbed for way less than 8k. The crankshaft oil leak is at worst a strip down with the crank journal being remetalled and reground for a new seal.

Beware of spending lots on a 32 year old boat. It isnt worth much in todays market unless its an iconic design. People coming into the boat market these days treat them much like cars - need to be new shiny and big. Old dingy british boat from the 70s and 80s only appeal to old brits
 
Interesting dilemma I faced and might have to again. The MD2B (30 yrs.old)in my previous boat expired and I replaced with a Beta 28. and new propellor. Much quieter, less vibration and very reliable. Helped to sell her, but no added value. A running cost if you like!
The MD17D in my present boat is now 32 yrs. old and starts and runs well. There are already spares for most external items, e.g. sea water pump, fuel pump, amassed by the previous owner, and I have just ordered a
an exhaust elbow as a spare. Will keep it running until something serious breaks and then re-engine; but know that I will have to accept a very
low price for the boat if I have to sell with the present engine.
 
PCUK said:
Spend the money on stopping the drips and save the rest for your last trip to Switzerland!
Click to expand...

One of the most ridiculous replies that I have ever seen - they are 60 and I nearly quarter of a century older still enjoy sailing and re-engined the boat last year.
 
This is a question I ask myself whenever our engine gives us problems. Coincidentally, replacing a rear oil seal was something I had to do and there were a few moments during the process when I would gladly have parted with 8k just to get the crick out of my back. But when I think back over our problems, none of them were really to do with the actual lump itself. Oil seals are a consumable item, including the ones in your water pump which is making it leak (just rebuild it, it's easy). Our most recent perplexing engine malfunction was caused by a mess of net around the prop. Gearbox oil leak? - another seal, €4.80. Engine revs dropping? - diesel bug. We would be very pleased to have a new engine but looking at it objectively, it starts easily, first time, every time .... it has never stopped unless asked to.... and 8k covers a LOT of lovely cruising!
 
Thanks so far everyone.
I guess that what I'm thinking is that the engine is unlikely to last another 20 years so replacement at some point could be considered inevitable. In that case then, given that a nice new engine should be good for those 20 years, it would be best to do the deed now. Although the current one has never let us down I do find increasingly that I have a tendency to limit my plans based on the fact that the engine is very old and I'm afraid of it becoming unreliable. Silly I know , and of course there's no guarantee that a shiny new one would be as reliable or suddenly inspire me with the confidence to sail the world.

The leaking crankshaft oil seal would be a major engine-out job - it's one of those old fashioned ones, basically a bit of rope in the main bearing cap. It's not a big leak but it does make the boat smell a bit 'oily' at times.
Water pump seals are like hen's teeth and apparently there is usually wear to the pump body too so the only sure solution is a £400 new one.
I just wonder how thin things like the exhaust manifold have become. No way of knowing without pulling it to bits of course but then gasket are not cheap and are hard to come by.

It is a tricky one.

This is the beast by the way:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZKqsYM4EwQ
 
Last edited:
25931 said:
One of the most ridiculous replies that I have ever seen - they are 60 and I nearly quarter of a century older still enjoy sailing and re-engined the boat last year.
Click to expand...

Exactly. The decision depends on how keen you are on replacing bits on an old obsolete engine where spares are increasingly expensive and difficult to get - or paying somebody to do it for you. Plus the constant worry about what is going to fail next. Lets face it after 32 years everything is getting worn. On the other hand if you have the money than you can remove all that and just enjoy your last few years sailing rather than fixing. That may be more important than worrying about what is going to happen to the value of your boat in a few years time. Of course if you don't have the money then you don't have the same choice.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top