Mid ships cleats

X

Xscapiste

Member
Joined
22 Feb 2021
Messages
24
Visit site
We wondered if anyone had tried using either fold down cleats or wing cleats that fold away as a mid ships cleat on 34ft ish sized sailing boats? Are they any good? Strong enough to motor against? Our boat didn't come with a midships cleat and we don't really want to add one but when mooring shorthanded it would be really useful so are exploring options for something foldaway or temporary (we don't think the jib track ones will work on our boat).
 
There used to be some (Barton?)which fitted on a a sliding genoa sheet track but two sizes close(metric/imperial?) soyou need to measure the track width precisely. Worked for us on a Benny oceanis 36 in the USA. If you have an alluminium toerail there are, or used to be, bolt on ones favoured by friends with Moodys
 
Robin said:
There used to be some (Barton?)which fitted on a a sliding genoa sheet track but two sizes close(metric/imperial?) soyou need to measure the track width precisely. Worked for us on a Benny oceanis 36 in the USA. If you have an alluminium toerail there are, or used to be, bolt on ones favoured by friends with Moodys
Click to expand...
Read the last line of the OP again.
 
I wouldn't be without mine but they are just standard cleats. When coming alongside single handed, I step through the gate onto whatever with 2 lines in my hand and the first line to be cleated off is the aft spring from the mid ship cleat followed by the aft breast rope. I can then sort the bow out at my leisure.
 
We have fitted standard cleats onto metal box section to lift above tie rail. Bolted through rail. We use them all th3 time especially in locks and would never remove them. Never had an issue with snagging
 
I can't imagine not having a good strong, reliable centre cleat. We have a Tropical storm approaching here on Wednesday. We need everything to our advantage. Anything other than super sturdy cleats all-round would not provide what we need
 
I am not quite certain why you would want to pay for fold away as many survive with fixed mid ship cleats but I believe Hanse have fold down ones so if desired form for you might be a source of info on owners website . I guess real issue is what you will be fixing the cleat to below decks as to whether any issues though with failure as opposed to the folding cleat build.
 
geem said:
I can't imagine not having a good strong, reliable centre cleat. We have a Tropical storm approaching here on Wednesday. We need everything to our advantage. Anything other than super sturdy cleats all-round would not provide what we need
Click to expand...

If you are going to attach your new cleats to an existing device, toe rail, track and if you decide to drill through the deck - make sure you have sufficient backing plates. Your toe rail and track may have been installed without any consideration these attachments would be stressed by a cleat. If there are no amidships cleats it is unlikely there will be strong points incorporated - you would need to add same (though I note this is not part of your planning_. Its not difficult to instal a backing plate of f it is difficult this difficulty might determine what and where you locate the cleats.

Jonathan
 
Neeves said:
If you are going to attach your new cleats to an existing device, toe rail, track and if you decide to drill through the deck - make sure you have sufficient backing plates. Your toe rail and track may have been installed without any consideration these attachments would be stressed by a cleat. If there are no amidships cleats it is unlikely there will be strong points incorporated - you would need to add same (though I note this is not part of your planning_. Its not difficult to instal a backing plate of f it is difficult this difficulty might determine what and where you locate the cleats.

Jonathan
Click to expand...
I would agree that the position and fixings should be the priority. As I believe from previous posts and forum name that you have a recent X Yacht, perhaps worth asking X Yachts UK, and/or XcYachts Owners Assoc, whether there is preparation already built into your boat for optional mid cleats. Also, might maximise boat value by fitting ones that match the existing ones.

It is probably very rare, but in one wild harbour with boats bouncing around I did see a folding mid cleat on a Hanse break, the moving bit seeming to have unscrewed due to constant movement. Easily spotted with the owner being on board, but if happened in 12 hours overnight, consequences could be worse if unattended in a marina berth.
 
There are many boats like the smaller X Yachts and J boats for example where the primary intended market is for fully crewed racing and clear decks for working crew maybe take priority over midship cleats - or even sturdy bow rollers and new gen anchors. Doubt many of these boats will ever be bothered about mooring in tropical storms!

Folding or pop up cleats are a viable solution - there are several different types on the market and widely used by builders of performance yachts. They look less strong than solid cleats and might be difficult to retrofit but don't see any reason why they should not be adequate as an aid when mooring shorthanded.
 
Sincere apologies Tranona - but I beg to differ.

Storm tactics at anchor: Surviving gales in Scilly - Yachting Monthly

Safety at Sea: Surviving a Powerful Storm in the Med

These are not tropical storms, much closer to 'your' homes than the tropics.

If you are in the path of these storms and your yacht is in a marina you don't need the worry that your securement might be compromised. We become complacent - we forget that our, owner installed, amidships cleat does not have a backing plate and we are too far away to make amends.

I'm an adherent of belt and braces.

Take care, stay safe

Jonathan
 
Neeves said:
Sincere apologies Tranona - but I beg to differ.

Storm tactics at anchor: Surviving gales in Scilly - Yachting Monthly

Safety at Sea: Surviving a Powerful Storm in the Med

These are not tropical storms, much closer to 'your' homes than the tropics.

If you are in the path of these storms and your yacht is in a marina you don't need the worry that your securement might be compromised. We become complacent - we forget that our, owner installed, amidships cleat does not have a backing plate and we are too far away to make amends.

I'm an adherent of belt and braces.

Take care, stay safe

Jonathan
Click to expand...
Most of these boats spend their life tied up in a marina or a box mooring in the Baltic when not being raced. Of course we have storms here - I vividly remember the 1987 storm, standing at my bedroom window which is on a hill about 3 miles inland overlooking Poole Harbour watching the trees at the bottom of the garden going horizontal. I knew my boat would be in danger on the north side of the harbour in shallow water totally exposed to the winds from the south. Sure enough, next morning found it high and dry on the football field alongside the bay with its mooring block and chain still attached to the sampson post!

The point I was making is that boats have an intended purpose in mind and are designed and equipped to suit that purpose. So if you look at racers and cruiser racers of the size the OP is asking about you will not find midship cleats, and in some cases not even an anchor roller that is permanently attached to the boat. Shock horror! - but that is what buyers need for their kind of use. However if, like the OP you want to use the boat for shorthanded cruising you either accept the limitations of the standard setup or look at ways of adding the things that make the boat more usuable for you.

On the other hand my "new" boat has a huge oak sampson post up front, 2 massive stainless steel bollards on the aft deck and of course midships cleats - but then it is a rufty tufty go anywhere cruising boat of a design that has an enviable record of bluewater cruising. Rather wasted on me keeping it tucked up in a very secure marina and taking it out from time to time to potter up and down the coast in benign weather.
 
Neeves said:
If you are going to attach your new cleats to an existing device, toe rail, track and if you decide to drill through the deck - make sure you have sufficient backing plates. Your toe rail and track may have been installed without any consideration these attachments would be stressed by a cleat. If there are no amidships cleats it is unlikely there will be strong points incorporated - you would need to add same (though I note this is not part of your planning_. Its not difficult to instal a backing plate of f it is difficult this difficulty might determine what and where you locate the cleats.

Jonathan
Click to expand...
I already have 400mm long cleats with huge backing pads built in by the builder. Super strong. They are in the edge of the deck where there is no core, just solid laminate where the deck moulding and hull moulding are overlapped then glassed together. So double thickness then some plus glassed in backing pads. Couldn't be any stronger.
They will get a test on Thursday as a tropical storm comes through the ABC islands
 
geem

You chose well. Others have yachts with penny washers as backing plates. Its not their fault - they assume that as the yacht comes from a large production builder they are 'good enough' but the threads on Lagoon's demonstrates this assumption might be misplaced. However it is not difficult to beef up, some of, what you have, in terms of reinforcing - its just takes time.

Best wishes for Thursday - I just hope you do not need to test 'could not be any stronger' - I'm in favour of belt and braces and over engineering. We do not have a toerail (though often I wish we did) and I added stainless plate onto pads of glass for the stanchions, cleats and bob stays.

Take care, stay safe

Jonathan
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top