MF's World Cruise, Some thing learned.
- Thread starter hlb
- Start date
MapisM
Well-Known Member
Point taken.
I guess I never felt the need because I don't trust any anchorage, regardless of how shallow the water is, unless I can put out 20m of chain at the very least. Yep, that might be a problem in crowded places - but I try to avoid them anyway!
PS: on a side note, absorbers apart, did you buy your snubber already assembled like that?
I'd definitely use a thimble to attach the hook to the line!
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Nick_H
Well-Known Member
I made it. You're right about the thimble, but I didn't have one at the time I made it. It's easy to make a new one if it wears out, and no great problem if it breaks during use.
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Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
Yeah, but the clutch is just designed to resist the forces from weighing 100kg or so of anchor and chain, not resist the force of a 25t boat snatching against a well dug in anchor. Also if you regularly free the capstan for hauling in bow ropes, you rely on somebody tightening it up after you've done it every time. I use a similar snubber to NickH and that hook can be easily released from the chain when you release the tension in the snubber
jfm
Well-Known Member
Who says? It's quite evidently designed to, and does very effectively, hold the whole boat. I've never used a snubber in 10 years of 40foot plus boating
I free the capstan pretty much everytime I berth in a berth with groundlines, so that's every day for some chunks of the year. And I re-do the clutch everytime I'm done. You'd be doing this anyway, so it's much easier just to do it right than to apply/remove a snubber to protect you in case you did it wrong. Indeed, even if you were pedantic/paranoid/OCD, you could go to the trouble of retightening the clutch each time you anchor, and that would still be easier (by a factor of 10) than attaching and unattaching a snubber!
ccscott49
Well-Known Member
Quick windlass.
My quick windlass has a pawl stopper built in, which locks the gypsy, so relieving the windlass clutch of carrying the weight of the boat.
Also with my anchor in a hawse, its impossible to put a snubber on from the deck, needs the dinghy to do that, what does the forum suggest about that dilema?
My quick windlass has a pawl stopper built in, which locks the gypsy, so relieving the windlass clutch of carrying the weight of the boat.
Also with my anchor in a hawse, its impossible to put a snubber on from the deck, needs the dinghy to do that, what does the forum suggest about that dilema?
hlb
RIP
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Oh, mines got a pawl as well, only trouble is, the winch has to be in exactly the right place to go in the slot. It takes about 20 attemps to get it right.
AndieMac
Well-Known Member
Nick_H
A good example of some nice neat splicing.
A good example of some nice neat splicing.
Observer
Well-Known Member
Hmmm. I have a similar arrangement (without the shock absorbers) for my chain stopper/snubber. A chain hook with a short length of rope spliced on going to a deck eye bolt. I think I disagree about the thimble. That would then also require a shackle to attach thimble to chain hook. So three bits of hardware instead of one. That rope (12mm I think) is comfortably adequate for the job anyway and it's not (very much) subject to chafe doing the job it is.
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Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
I don't think that's evident at all. The only prudent assumption you can make is that the clutch is designed to resist the max pull from the winch and if you don't use a snubber for anchoring you are betting that the load imparted on the clutch by the boat pulling on the anchor is always less than the max design pull of the winch. The fact that you have not experienced clutch slip in 10 yrs of anchoring is probably more indicative of the fact that we moboers tend only to anchor in light winds
It is not just accepted practice to take the load off the anchor winch when at anchor but it is recommended by the winch manufacturers themselves
jfm
Well-Known Member
It's highly evident from the materials, design, dimensions of the clutch assembly. Engineering of this nature is a predictable repeatable science, not a bunch of randomness
Speak for yourself! And anchoring in bad weahter is precisely when you don't want a snubber. You need to be able, if necessary, to get the hell out of there quickly in the dark. And anyway, clutch slipping aint a problem anyway, cos you're hardly going to anchor 50m from a lee shore in weahter so bad it slips the winch clutch
I just think the logic of snubbing is all mixed up
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
It's highly evident from the materials, design, dimensions of the clutch assembly. Engineering of this nature is a predictable repeatable science, not a bunch of randomness
Speak for yourself! And anchoring in bad weahter is precisely when you don't want a snubber. You need to be able, if necessary, to get the hell out of there quickly in the dark. And anyway, clutch slipping aint a problem anyway, cos you're hardly going to anchor 50m from a lee shore in weahter so bad it slips the winch clutch
I just think the logic of snubbing is all mixed up
Of course the engineering is predictable. IMHO, it's predictable that the clutch is designed with an appropriate safety factor for the max pull of the winch. What is not predictable is the snatch load that the clutch has to resist when the boat shears in a gust of wind
Take your point re clutch slipping not being disastrous. Unlikely to lead to a grounding but it certainly could lead to a coming together with another boat. Have to agree to disagree on this as IMHO attaching a snubber is a simple and worthwile thing to do, and detaching it is easy if you've got the chain hook type
Just don't come back on to this forum in 20 yrs time like hlb complaining about clutch slip on your anchor winch!
Observer
Well-Known Member
It's highly evident from the materials, design, dimensions of the clutch assembly. Engineering of this nature is a predictable repeatable science, not a bunch of randomness
Speak for yourself! And anchoring in bad weahter is precisely when you don't want a snubber. You need to be able, if necessary, to get the hell out of there quickly in the dark. And anyway, clutch slipping aint a problem anyway, cos you're hardly going to anchor 50m from a lee shore in weahter so bad it slips the winch clutch
I just think the logic of snubbing is all mixed up
jfm,
I have to say I'm surprised by how vehemently you're arguing against a snubber. I know you have engineering background but to me it seems reasonable to take precautions against failure of clutch or the chain jumping off the gypsy by taking the load off the winch. The principle is used by big ships so why not also applicable to small ones?
Okay I see your argument about the noise of the chain waking you but I don't find it very convincing. Also think the argument about having to release the snubber is not persuasive. It's a few paces from cockpit to foredeck - perhaps 5 seconds, 10 tops. You said yourself that the consequence of a clutch failure (as long as the bitter end is secure) is unlikely to be disastrous so an extra few seconds is immaterial (defeated by your own argument, ha).
Of course it's personal choice. I feel happier knowing the chain is secured by something more substantial (and visible) than a few teeth on the gypsy and an invisible clutch mechanism.
One final point, you're used to Med anchoring where there is damn all tidal flow. When the anchor/chain has to hold against wind and tide (as often in the UK) it has more work to do. I suspect that's the reason I actually experienced the chain juming the gypsy a few weeks ago in Salcombe.
MapisM
Well-Known Member
Mmmm.... I must say that I'm with Mike on this one, J - see below:
I just had a look at Lofrans' site, 'cause I couldn't remember by heart the ratings of my windlass but I knew they give some.
Here they are: 1600kg maximum instantaneous pull, which is more or less the breaking load of a 10mm line!
But mind, it handles 2x45kg anchors, with 100m chain each, and never missed a beat.
They don't give a specific rating for clutch slipping (it wouldn't make sense anyway, 'cause it has a separate brake which obviously can hold much more), but I don't think I could complain if a load higher than 1600kg would cause the clutch to slip.
Also because if it gets bad enough to force an escape, we don't really need some grinding noise to wake up, do we? Though of course that's rather personal.
Well, saying that it's "highly evident" is, ermm... not exactly an engineering concept, is it?
I just had a look at Lofrans' site, 'cause I couldn't remember by heart the ratings of my windlass but I knew they give some.
Here they are: 1600kg maximum instantaneous pull, which is more or less the breaking load of a 10mm line!
But mind, it handles 2x45kg anchors, with 100m chain each, and never missed a beat.
They don't give a specific rating for clutch slipping (it wouldn't make sense anyway, 'cause it has a separate brake which obviously can hold much more), but I don't think I could complain if a load higher than 1600kg would cause the clutch to slip.
Well no reason why I couldn't recover the anchor leaving it attached to the chain - though I never had to.
Agreed. All the above being said, my first reason for using a snubber remains that I want to sleep even in bad weather!
Also because if it gets bad enough to force an escape, we don't really need some grinding noise to wake up, do we? Though of course that's rather personal.
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jfm
Well-Known Member
Yup, but neither is the load on the anchor. So are you also going to rig a line twixt chain and the seabed, so bypassing your anchor?
Yes, as I said right at the top, those who like snubbers have a "perfectly valid" point of view, and I'm merely putting forward an alternative view, and just imho. Forum would be dull if everyone agreed
jfm
Well-Known Member
au contraire. I'm the only side in this argument who has said of the other side that they have a "perfectly valid point of view" and that I'm merely expressing the alternative view
Observer
Well-Known Member
au contraire. I'm the only side in this argument who has said of the other side that they have a "perfectly valid point of view" and that I'm merely expressing the alternative view
Oh I see. So you're just being argumentative. Quiet in the office is it?
hlb
RIP
What I can not understand is.
I have a brake on mine, it's a pawl that goes into a slot in the gypsy. No ones said, just use that, or is every one like me. It's a hell of a job to line the two up.
I have a brake on mine, it's a pawl that goes into a slot in the gypsy. No ones said, just use that, or is every one like me. It's a hell of a job to line the two up.
Searush
Well-Known Member
My mechanical windlass has a pawl, but it drops into a cogged wheel, every click aligns a cog with the pawl. Seemples.
But I can't be @rsed with the windlass it's too slow for me. I do let the girlies use it if they want tho'.
But I can't be @rsed with the windlass it's too slow for me. I do let the girlies use it if they want tho'.
Nick_H
Well-Known Member
Yes, I suppose when you tear around everywhere at almost 5 knots, those seconds spent waiting for the windless must seem like an eternity